UVC sterilizer for water

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Especially in winter sometimes I fight with rot caused by erwinia and pseudomonas. I think main source can be the callected, standing water in tanks, so I made this setup with a filter and a 16w uvc sterilizer.Its max capacity for good effect is 8l/min.It is good for recirculation and waterings , too. Anyone tried similar?IMG_20231019_131811.jpg
 
Gee no, I have never had a problem with either of those 2 pathogens.
It was always my understanding that things of this nature were caused by cooler night time temperatures with standing moisture in the center or core of an orchid. Paphiopedilums and Phalaenopsis were particularly susceptible. I have only been growing Phragmipediums for 5 years and I have to encountered them there either.
I also thought that both were constant air born pathogens. I probably am wrong but I have limited dealings with both Erwinia and Psuedomonas. Even my 5 years in Florida were free of these.
I have always used oscillating fans, 2 in Florida ( 9 years), 2 in New York ( 34 years) and now 5+ years in Michigan to circulate my air which I learned from some body back in 1974 when I started with orchids. "Keep water out of the crowns, good air movement" were recommended by speakers back then and I have had great success with avoiding those two. Also, try to water early in the day! And my goodness, in Florida, every one of my 400-500 orchids were always outside. Fans were always on providing good air movement. BUT Florida rarely had anything like a cool night!! But even so, the fans were always on under my eaves 24/7/365. Black rot was very common and scary to face but Erwinia or Psuedomonas, not so much. Maybe I had 6-8 deaths caused by Erwinia over my 48 years of growing. But Good luck!!!! 👍
 
Yes, i have 4 fans in my gh, but it can not give solution in cold winter when just the stagnant inner air volume runs up and down within the gh. For that reason I made an air exchanging system, it runs 15 min in every 2 hours. with that i can exchange the total volume of my gh every day. If i set it on bigger volume exchange i would have to pay too much for heating.🤪
 
Yes, i have 4 fans in my gh, but it can not give solution in cold winter when just the stagnant inner air volume runs up and down within the gh. For that reason I made an air exchanging system, it runs 15 min in every 2 hours. with that i can exchange the total volume of my gh every day. If i set it on bigger volume exchange i would have to pay too much for heating.🤪
I agree with trying to keep the water clean! I can’t remember if your water source is rain water or do you make RO? Is the sterilizer before the storage tank or is it after tank? With a decent sized greenhouse you must have a water storage tank.

I don’t need more than 4 gallons of RO water a day to do everything so I make them the day before use and add a small amount of Zerotol HC (hydrogen peroxide and peroxyacetic acid) to each gallon jug as I make it. I then pour these directly into the tub with the pump for watering. I want to limit bacteria of any type spraying around. I suppose you could add a disinfectant to your storage tank.
 
I have 3 m3 tank for rain water. Peroxide is too expensive for keeping away bacteria continously and i think it may not useful for roots because of oxidative stress. UVC sterilization a cheap, effective way for a bigger amount of water, too.
 
I have 3 m3 tank for rain water. Peroxide is too expensive for keeping away bacteria continously and i think it may not useful for roots because of oxidative stress. UVC sterilization a cheap, effective way for a bigger amount of water, too.
The peroxide product Terry mentioned is intended for horticultural use.

Most over-the-counter peroxides are barely stabilized with stannous chloride, so the moment it make contact with metals or organic materials, a “cascade decomposition” is initiated, releasing all the stored energy at once.

The horticultural material are stabilized with peroxyacetic acid and stay chemically active until the dry. That allows the stuff to be applied at a tiny fraction of the concentration of the OTC stuff, doing the disinfecting without any phytotoxic effects whatsoever.
 
Ray, thank you for info. I m wondering if it is abailable in Europe?Here in my country some of my friends uses 3 percent of peroxide solution periodically but this way has many disadvantages. Expensive, not appropriate for sterilization of mass of water , applying directly on plants can be toxic.
 
I would be curious if a similar effect could could accomplished by bubbling air (oxygen & nitrogen) into the water storage vessel with a small fish pump. As an organic chemist, I am quite aware of the ability of UV light to produce ozone, and I do know that ozone is more reactive then oxygen, bit I also know that ozone has a different reactivity profile from from oxygen and bleach (hypochlorite).
 
I would be curious if a similar effect could could accomplished by bubbling air (oxygen & nitrogen) into the water storage vessel with a small fish pump. As an organic chemist, I am quite aware of the ability of UV light to produce ozone, and I do know that ozone is more reactive then oxygen, bit I also know that ozone has a different reactivity profile from from oxygen and bleach (hypochlorite).
Thank you for comment. This device get contact only the water, that is why there is no ozone production, at all.
 
Ray, thank you for info. I m wondering if it is abailable in Europe?Here in my country some of my friends uses 3 percent of peroxide solution periodically but this way has many disadvantages. Expensive, not appropriate for sterilization of mass of water , applying directly on plants can be toxic.
As Ray indicated (and I got on to Zerotol through him), the peroxyacetic acid may be the more dominant part of the product. The peroxide is low concentration and stabilized. I think you would add it to your tank and a periodic basis. You would not put it in the line going directly to your plants. You would need to see if Zerotol if available where you are and what it costs. The company makes it in various sizes because it used by very large horticultural growers. Here is the link to the product in the Biosafe website:

https://biosafesystems.com/product/zerotol-hc/
 
What effect does the use of any of these have on the beneficial organisms that one might try to establish with products like Quantum Orchid or any other beneficial organism additive? Would you be undoing what you are trying to do with the addition of beneficial microbes?
 
First of all is this a UVC (clarifier) or a UV steriliser? The two are different and the UVS should have a much smaller maximum distance between the lamp and the furthest distance water can travel from it. A UVC will not kill most bacteria but is strong enough to disrupt algae running through it.

Do you run the UV constantly on a loop or just run the water through it once when collecting or using the water? If you think you need it I would be running it recirculating for a few hours at least before watering to eliminate most of the bacteria in the water. Make sure the physical filter is upstream of the UV so the water is very clear before hitting the UV.
 
I agree with trying to keep the water clean! I can’t remember if your water source is rain water or do you make RO? Is the sterilizer before the storage tank or is it after tank? With a decent sized greenhouse you must have a water storage tank.

I don’t need more than 4 gallons of RO water a day to do everything so I make them the day before use and add a small amount of Zerotol HC (hydrogen peroxide and peroxyacetic acid) to each gallon jug as I make it. I then pour these directly into the tub with the pump for watering. I want to limit bacteria of any type spraying around. I suppose you could add a disinfectant to your storage tank.
I must have an accident waiting to happen with my water, as I draw 3 gallons of R/O at a time in a bucket. Since I use 6-10 gallons a day, I draw 3-4 buckets in a 24 hr period that I then put into 2 10 gallon plastic garbage cans and add fertilizer. ½ teas/gal in one and ¼ teas/gal in the other. I don’t worry about using it all up that day, and if any is left I just add more water & fertilizer to it the next day. About once a week (or before if I notice contamination), I wash out the plastic cans with detergent and water. The only exception is when I use KelpPac or the probiotic from Ray. Then I try to use it all up each day. Am I crazy to not be more concerned with the cleanliness of my water? I’ve never had any kind of rot, etc.
 
I must have an accident waiting to happen with my water, as I draw 3 gallons of R/O at a time in a bucket. Since I use 6-10 gallons a day, I draw 3-4 buckets in a 24 hr period that I then put into 2 10 gallon plastic garbage cans and add fertilizer. ½ teas/gal in one and ¼ teas/gal in the other. I don’t worry about using it all up that day, and if any is left I just add more water & fertilizer to it the next day. About once a week (or before if I notice contamination), I wash out the plastic cans with detergent and water. The only exception is when I use KelpPac or the probiotic from Ray. Then I try to use it all up each day. Am I crazy to not be more concerned with the cleanliness of my water? I’ve never had any kind of rot, etc.
Don’t you see growth of the blue/green “algae” (really cyanobacteria) in your 10 gallon garbage cans? I always did in my 4 gallon container. Once fertilizer is in the water and it is exposed to air and light, things grow. I think that RO water that is freshly stored in opaque, sealed gallon containers without fertilizer stays pretty clean. Yet, I would get some growth of blue or black microorganisms around the lid or on the bottom of the gallon container. I now put a bit of the Zerotol periodically into my gallon storage containers as the RO water goes into them. I also put a bit in the bottom of my 4 gallon container holding the watering pump even though I pump everything out and there is only a small amount of fluid in there. I also don’t have any rot, but I don’t want even blue green cyanobacteria growing in pots. I am likely over concerned, but my fix is so fast and cheap it is hard not to do it. There is a remarkable difference in the appearance of my 4 gallon pumping container and the water as I am ready to apply it to the plants is now crystal clear, which it never was before.
 
What effect does the use of any of these have on the beneficial organisms that one might try to establish with products like Quantum Orchid or any other beneficial organism additive? Would you be undoing what you are trying to do with the addition of beneficial microbes?
The Zerotol literature does not suggest it would be wiping everything out. I am also using a modest concentration at the time of RO collection and the activity is most likely worn off by the time the water is applied. I worry a little less about beneficial organisms in my root zone because I am growing in 100% LECA (Hydroton) in a way that is pretty close to semi-hydroponic (intermittent fertigation but daily heavy misting to each pot) and I am not sure the beneficial organisms in the root zone function the same in these environments.
 
Don’t you see growth of the blue/green “algae” (really cyanobacteria) in your 10 gallon garbage cans? I always did in my 4 gallon container. Once fertilizer is in the water and it is exposed to air and light, things grow. I think that RO water that is freshly stored in opaque, sealed gallon containers without fertilizer stays pretty clean. Yet, I would get some growth of blue or black microorganisms around the lid or on the bottom of the gallon container. I now put a bit of the Zerotol periodically into my gallon storage containers as the RO water goes into them. I also put a bit in the bottom of my 4 gallon container holding the watering pump even though I pump everything out and there is only a small amount of fluid in there. I also don’t have any rot, but I don’t want even blue green cyanobacteria growing in pots. I am likely over concerned, but my fix is so fast and cheap it is hard not to do it. There is a remarkable difference in the appearance of my 4 gallon pumping container and the water as I am ready to apply it to the plants is now crystal clear, which it never was before.
I occasionally see some algae in my clear pots but not in my watering containers. Except that is, for my 15 gallon huge container that I daily dip my one Vanda in. But, that one gets cleaned and refilled when I see a slight green film begin to show, which honestly is about once a month. Even when I was diligent and cleaned my containers more frequently, algae grew in my clear pots.
I’ll give the formula you use a try. I don’t see it on Ray’s website. Can you send me the link? Thx.
 
@skirincich - these devices are sold to kill pathogens in the water. I first saw them when keeping aquaria, and later for use on well water systems.

ZeroTol is is disinfectant. It is not a selective kill. It is marketed as a "broad-spectrum algaecide, bactericide, fungicide" (see the link @terryros shared).

Concerning the use of beneficial microbes in inert media, including semi-hydroponics - Yes, they work, to some degree due to the fact that they populate the plant. Having no carbon source in the medium will reduce the rhizosphere activity,

@southernbelle - I used to sell BioSafe Systems products, but they discontinued "consumer packaging" and this is not a product I'd want to repackage in my home.
 
I occasionally see some algae in my clear pots but not in my watering containers. Except that is, for my 15 gallon huge container that I daily dip my one Vanda in. But, that one gets cleaned and refilled when I see a slight green film begin to show, which honestly is about once a month. Even when I was diligent and cleaned my containers more frequently, algae grew in my clear pots.
I’ll give the formula you use a try. I don’t see it on Ray’s website. Can you send me the link? Thx.
Always important to remember the “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” aphorism. You might not need to change anything. Istvan and I thought we had something that needed fixing. The link to the Biosafe website section on Zerotol HC is up above in a reply I made to Istvan. The fresh RO water is not a problem, it is when it is stored in a container. I think you are putting the fresh RO directly in your large containers. Zerotol would get added as you put the new RO into the container. The goal isn’t sterile water, it is to keep the innoculum size of organisms low in the water you apply to your plants. Fertilizer in the water probably enhances organism growth so if you could wait on adding the fertilizer to the containers until soon before use it might be better.
 
@skirincich - these devices are sold to kill pathogens in the water. I first saw them when keeping aquaria, and later for use on well water systems.

ZeroTol is is disinfectant. It is not a selective kill. It is marketed as a "broad-spectrum algaecide, bactericide, fungicide" (see the link @terryros shared).

Concerning the use of beneficial microbes in inert media, including semi-hydroponics - Yes, they work, to some degree due to the fact that they populate the plant. Having no carbon source in the medium will reduce the rhizosphere activity,

@southernbelle - I used to sell BioSafe Systems products, but they discontinued "consumer packaging" and this is not a product I'd want to repackage in my home.
Ray, I am very grateful for all the careful work you have done to innovate and further the growth of orchids.
 

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