Time to throw in the towel...

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The Mutant

The Mutant

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Joined
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I think it's about time to throw in the towel and toss the major part of my Paph collection in the bin. The reason? Well, I'm a stupid Paph owner who kept my affected Delrosi, and now, whatever it has, has spread to almost the entire collection (as I know some of you predicted would happen).

I'm going to try a last thing, the only available fungicide I've found here in Sweden, called CurEra Kumulus DF. It seems to be a sulfur based fungicide which is mainly used against mildew, and is apparently effective against Monilia and Venturia, too. If this doesn't work, it's the waste basket for about 90% of my entire collection. :sob:

We have a saying in Sweden; "Är huvudet dumt så får kroppen lida", roughly (and badly) translated to "If the head's stupid, the body will suffer". In my case, the saying should be changed to; "If the head's stupid, the wallet will suffer".

I hope this will work now, if not I'll have to start all over again.
 
I will try to see if I can get some good photos tomorrow. It's way too dark now, and my camera is rather light sensitive, and the spots are hard to see on some plants.

The thing is, I have no idea what it is. It could be fungus (I think it's the most likely ailment), it could be insects, but I've recently treated the entire collection against insects and the problem continues, it might even be virus.

It took some time for me to discover the fact that it had spread as much as it has, due to it only being visible on the underside of the leaves as yellowish spots. On most Paphs, it's only the older leaves that are affected, but on some, even the newer ones. On the severely affected ones, the yellow spots merge and get visible on the upper side of the leaves too, like it goes through the leaf tissue. This happened to my sukh, and I cut everything off, except the two top most leaves, since these were free from the spots. Now, a yellow spot has appeared on one of the leaves left.

It seems to be slow and so far, it doesn't seem to affect the plants in any visible way, except that they look ugly on the underside of the leaves. I have no idea what it is, but I don't like it.

I have tossed my Paph. Wössner Vietnam Star, since this one was so heavily infected, I didn't dare keep it (it stood close to my Delrosi before I discovered those nasty spots on it, so it seems to have been infected during this time).

Hmm... I checked the Dragon's Blood thingy, and it seems available here in Sweden actually. I might be able to get a hold of Physan 20, which one of these would you recommend I use?

I've attached a picture of the spots on my Delrosi (it looks worse now, but the infection, those yellow spots, looks the same on my other infected Paphs):

263612.orig.jpg
 
Doesn't look like virus, it is fungal or bacterial infection.

i had the EXACT same problem with my plants a couple years ago. It was definitely infectious across plants. I was in deep despair but overcame the problem.

The strategy for me was 1) stop the spread by removing infected tissues, and 2) change culture to make plants stronger/less susceptible.

Along with surgical removal, copper fungicide helped stop the spread (Phyton 20 wes effective).

But then the biggest change that helped me was culural. I had previously been using reverse osmosis water which was starving my plants of Calcium and Magnesium (even though the fert I was using had them). Rick would say it was Potassium overload.

When i switched back to tapwater and a K-lite formulation with Calcium NItrate in it, I never saw the problem again. (after a year of K-Lite, today i alternate K-lite with 30-10-10 urea fert)

So for a start, definitely suggest cutting that heavily infected leaf off the Delrosi with a flame-sterilized tool, and find some copper spray.
 
I think a lot of growers run into a rot issue eventually. I treated mine with a couple different fungicides in rotation and it went away. Mine was a plant that was tucked behind a lot of multi's that I never seen declining and it spread like crazy. If I were you I would treat everything,unless you're looking for a reason to get rid of plants you don't want or have a ton of divisions of
 
I've seen this in Phrag besseae. The leaf tissue seems to liquify on the inside, while the outside remains dry. It was a calcium deficiency. I solved the problem quickly by feeding with Phostrogen, which contains calcium and Magnesium. Nowadays, I use Calcium Nitrate and Epsome salts in my regular feeding schedule and I never see this problem anymore.

This problem of yours could be physiological, not a contagious disease caused by a pathogen.
 
Definitely agree on the Calcium Nitrate and Epsom Salts. Made a huge difference for my plants on this issue.
 
Mr Mutant, my advice is for you to go through your plants right now and separate every healthy plant from the unhealthy plants. Move them into a different room if you can and, assuming you are accidentally transmitting the fungus with your equipment, get new equipment for watering etc...

If the dragon's blood doesn't work, you might still be able to save some plants with good quarantine procedures.
 
That stinks! Is it actually causing damage or does it just look unsightly?

You might, in addition to 'bigger guns,' try getting some powdered aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) and mixing it in your irrigation water at 1/8-1/4 tsp per gallon. I don't have time to link articles right now but you can find papers on Google Scholar referencing the role salicylic acid apparently plays in plants' 'immune response' to pathogens, the jury's still out on effectiveness of dosing extra but it certainly doesn't seem to harm plants plus it's cheap to buy and relatively nontoxic to handle.

Good luck!
 
Thanks for all of your opinions guys, much appreciated. I think it's a combination of something cultural and the fact that the Delrosi was infected when I got it. This, coupled with bad quarantine procedures and probably, bad sanitary ones, has led to the problem I have today.

I have removed all suspicious looking tissue from all my Paphs (the Phals are unaffected and are not standing together with the Paphs), and treated them with this sulfur based fungicide. I've gotten some more tips that I'll try if this or Dragon's blood doesn't work.

I have been mixing K-lite with Blomstra, since, for some reason, if I only use K-lite, my plants will barely grow, and if I only use Blomstra, they look like they might suffer from Magnesium deficiency (even if I add Magnesium which I have done). I feel I have more problems with insects and this, whatever it is, since I started using Blomstra, so I want to make K-lite work. I have some ideas that I'll try, and then we'll see. :)

gnathaniel said:
That stinks! Is it actually causing damage or does it just look unsightly?

You might, in addition to 'bigger guns,' try getting some powdered aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) and mixing it in your irrigation water at 1/8-1/4 tsp per gallon. I don't have time to link articles right now but you can find papers on Google Scholar referencing the role salicylic acid apparently plays in plants' 'immune response' to pathogens, the jury's still out on effectiveness of dosing extra but it certainly doesn't seem to harm plants plus it's cheap to buy and relatively nontoxic to handle.

Good luck!
Click to expand...
As far as I can tell, it doesn't seem to cause any damage to some of the plants. The exception was my sukh, where the spots merged and started to go through the leaf tissue, and same with my Wössner Vietnam Star. So, if left alone, it eventually causes damage, or maybe if the Paph in question has some health problems, it might prove lethal.

I have aspirin and have thought about using it, but haven't gotten that far. I think it's about time I do, though. :eek:
 
I am having the exact same issue with one of my Paphs right now. Gonna tag along and try these steps. Thanks

Those of you using Epsom Salts, what is the dosage? I use RO water as well because our water here in California is horrible.

Thanks again and good luck!

tyler
 
We all run into issues at some point so beating yourself up isn't worth it. You can only learn from this experience!

Also, I think you can call yourself a true "orchidist" when you get to the point where throwing out hundreds of dollars of plants only phases you a little (cause let's face it you'll never entirely get over it).

I think if you can keep them well isolated its worth a shot to try and save them.

Good luck

Sent from my BlackBerry Bold 9900 using Tapatalk
 
Ozpaph said:
Cant you buy fungicides etc on eBay from the USA and get them sent? - I do to Australia.
Click to expand...
I don't know. Can I? I think I gave up on ordering anything orchid related after trying to get hold of certain types of fertilizer. I simply assumed that the fungicides were liquids, too, which meant it wouldn't get shipped to Sweden. Are these fungicides in powder form? And if they are, which one should I get?

Paph_LdyMacBeth said:
We all run into issues at some point so beating yourself up isn't worth it. You can only learn from this experience!

Also, I think you can call yourself a true "orchidist" when you get to the point where throwing out hundreds of dollars of plants only phases you a little (cause let's face it you'll never entirely get over it).

I think if you can keep them well isolated its worth a shot to try and save them.

Good luck

Sent from my BlackBerry Bold 9900 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I know, but I wish I could learn without my Paphs suffering too much. :p

There are only a few I consider hopeless to save (three so far), the rest I hope might pull through after the mangling I put them through. I have moved the plants around, clearing up some space, which I hope will help now and in the future. All of the worst affected plants have been isolated.

Thank you. :)
 
Mutant:

That picture reminds me of my problems a few years ago. It started as light yellow patches and it looks like the plant got weaken very quickly.

Turns out it was a thrip infestation! Lost about 50-60% of my sanderianum seedlings!

I suggest you spray with some insecticide soap and treat it with some sort of fungicide.
 
MorandiWine said:
Those of you using Epsom Salts, what is the dosage? I use RO water as well because our water here in California is horrible.
tyler
Click to expand...

Less than 1 gram per gallon. I prefer magnesium nitrate to Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate) since I can apply it with calcium nitrate. You can buy both here:
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Specialty-Nutrients/Buy-Specialty-Nutrients.html

Or you could use a formulation made for use with pure water like:
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Ja...d-Formulas/12-3-15-Orchid--RO-Type-Water.html
http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Hydroponics/Buy-Hydroponics.html
 

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