Standard Complex x Simultaneous Multis - Any Successes?

[silence882]

Hey all,

I was wondering if there have been any decent crosses between standard complex paphs and simultaneous multiflorals. I know the crosses have been made and bloomed, but I'm not sure if I've ever seen a picture of one.

Does anyone happen to know?

--Stephen

 

[Ross]

Check Dr. Tanaka's website. I seem to recall a picture of Paph (Orchilla x sanderianum)
I just found it http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/tanaka/Novel/ennovelty1.html

 

[Roy]

The odd one or two have shown promise but the record suggests that this line of breeding is a waste of time and money, to me anyway. The odds of getting anything decent is too great. Then of course, many growers like most flowers, depends on your taste.

 

[goldenrose]

Check Dr. Tanaka's website. I seem to recall a picture of Paph (Orchilla x sanderianum)
I just found it http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/tanaka/Novel/ennovelty1.html

Thanks for the link Ross! There are some that came out better than I expected! The color on the Orchilla x sand is nice but .......
as Roy would say 'dice it'!

 

[Hera]

I love the villosum x niveum.

 

[paphioland]

Some Heaven's Gate were nice. Generally they are duds and they can be hard to bloom

 

[silence882]

Thanks for the info! It's nice to know at least a couple have been made and turned out alright.

--Stephen

 

[Drorchid]

Actually the first day I worked here at Orchids Limited I made a Complex by multifloral cross. I crossed Paph. Via Victoria (a complex green) with Paph. haynaldianum album. Now that I know more about Paph breeding I probably would never make that kind of cross, but it actually turned out a lot nicer than I thought.

I named it Paph. Double Victory (as each flower spike always had 2 flowers):

Robert

 

[NYEric]

I like the crazy crosses! BTW isn't a complex crossed to a multi = a complex!?

 

[Drorchid]

I like the crazy crosses! BTW isn't a complex crossed to a multi = a complex!?

Yes, in theory you are correct, but when I talk about a "complex" (just say the word "complex") I always refer to a "Bulldog" type cross (Like Paph. Winston Churchill). In all other cases when it is a "complex" cross (Not a primary, or has more than 3 species in it's background) I refer to them as complex Brachy, complex multifloral or complex Parvi etc. The picture I posted above I would refer to as a complex novelty type cross.

Robert

 

[charlie c]

Robert,

Have you tried to breed Paph. Double Victory?

Just wondering if there's also a fertility problem with standard complex X simultaneous multi crosses?

charlie c

 

[silence882]

When this type of cross is made, are there a lot of deformed blooms?

 

[SlipperFan]

One can certainly see haynaldianum, album, in Robert's cross!

 

[Drorchid]

Robert,

Have you tried to breed Paph. Double Victory?

Just wondering if there's also a fertility problem with standard complex X simultaneous multi crosses?

charlie c

No, I have not tried breeding with it yet. I am guessing that it is probably sterile, but who knows? If it is fertile, maybe this plant can lead to multifloral bulldog types. I have noticed that now these plants are more mature they get up to 3 flowers per stem. Can you imagine 3 Winston Churchill type flowers on a stem? We do have a rothschildianum x Complex Cross, that I have tried to breed with, but that one was sterile. I will see if I can find a picture of it.

When this type of cross is made, are there a lot of deformed blooms?

Actually all plants were pretty uniform and consistent, and more or less looked like the picture posted. So, no there were no deformed flowers.

Robert

 

[Drorchid]

I found it; It is Paph. Ron Hawley (rothschildianum x Telesis):

Robert

 

[charlie c]

Robert,

Thanks for sharing your experiences with this type of breeding.

Do you think using one of the supposedly 4N multi cultivars ( like a stonei whose name I can't recall at the moment) mated to a 4N Bulldog would increase your chances of producing fertile offspring? Or do you think this is just a compatibility problem?

In an event, good luck. And, yes indeed, when you succeed in getting 3 Winston Churchill type flowers on a stem I'll be beating a path to your door.

charlie c

 

[NYEric]

When I look at the photo I can only think, "I hope they don't lose the tags!"!!

 

[Drorchid]

Robert,

Thanks for sharing your experiences with this type of breeding.

Do you think using one of the supposedly 4N multi cultivars ( like a stonei whose name I can't recall at the moment) mated to a 4N Bulldog would increase your chances of producing fertile offspring? Or do you think this is just a compatibility problem?

In an event, good luck. And, yes indeed, when you succeed in getting 3 Winston Churchill type flowers on a stem I'll be beating a path to your door.

charlie c

Yes, I think if you would use a 4N multifloral, and cross it to a known 4N Complex Bulldog type, that yes that will increase your odds of producing fertile offspring.

 

[Eric Muehlbauer]

I think Klehm's made some complex x haynaldianum crosses...and named one of them Toll Booth...I think it was Winston Churchill x haynaldianum....

 

[goldenrose]

Ron Hawley is bad, it would be better if there were multiple flowers. The single flower is OK but Telsis is an awfully nice red & IMO nothing was improved upon. As Eric said - don't lose that tag!