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Standard Complex x Simultaneous Multis - Any Successes?

Discussion in 'Breeding & Production' started by silence882, Mar 8, 2009.

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  1. Mar 8, 2009 #1

    silence882

    silence882

    silence882

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    Hey all,

    I was wondering if there have been any decent crosses between standard complex paphs and simultaneous multiflorals. I know the crosses have been made and bloomed, but I'm not sure if I've ever seen a picture of one.

    Does anyone happen to know?

    --Stephen
     
  2. Mar 8, 2009 #2

    paphreek

    paphreek

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  3. Mar 8, 2009 #3

    Roy

    Roy

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    The odd one or two have shown promise but the record suggests that this line of breeding is a waste of time and money, to me anyway. The odds of getting anything decent is too great. Then of course, many growers like most flowers, depends on your taste.
     
  4. Mar 8, 2009 #4
    Thanks for the link Ross! There are some that came out better than I expected! The color on the Orchilla x sand is nice but .......
    as Roy would say 'dice it'!
     
  5. Mar 8, 2009 #5

    Hera

    Hera

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    I love the villosum x niveum.
     
  6. Mar 8, 2009 #6

    paphioland

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    Some Heaven's Gate were nice. Generally they are duds and they can be hard to bloom
     
  7. Mar 9, 2009 #7

    silence882

    silence882

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    Thanks for the info! It's nice to know at least a couple have been made and turned out alright.

    --Stephen
     
  8. Mar 9, 2009 #8
    Actually the first day I worked here at Orchids Limited I made a Complex by multifloral cross. I crossed Paph. Via Victoria (a complex green) with Paph. haynaldianum album. Now that I know more about Paph breeding I probably would never make that kind of cross, but it actually turned out a lot nicer than I thought.

    I named it Paph. Double Victory (as each flower spike always had 2 flowers):

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Robert
     
  9. Mar 9, 2009 #9

    NYEric

    NYEric

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    I like the crazy crosses! :D BTW isn't a complex crossed to a multi = a complex!?
     
  10. Mar 9, 2009 #10
    Yes, in theory you are correct, but when I talk about a "complex" (just say the word "complex") I always refer to a "Bulldog" type cross (Like Paph. Winston Churchill). In all other cases when it is a "complex" cross (Not a primary, or has more than 3 species in it's background) I refer to them as complex Brachy, complex multifloral or complex Parvi etc. The picture I posted above I would refer to as a complex novelty type cross.

    Robert
     
  11. Mar 9, 2009 #11
    Robert,

    Have you tried to breed Paph. Double Victory?

    Just wondering if there's also a fertility problem with standard complex X simultaneous multi crosses?

    charlie c
     
  12. Mar 9, 2009 #12

    silence882

    silence882

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    When this type of cross is made, are there a lot of deformed blooms?
     
  13. Mar 9, 2009 #13

    SlipperFan

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    One can certainly see haynaldianum, album, in Robert's cross!
     
  14. Mar 10, 2009 #14
    No, I have not tried breeding with it yet. I am guessing that it is probably sterile, but who knows? If it is fertile, maybe this plant can lead to multifloral bulldog types. I have noticed that now these plants are more mature they get up to 3 flowers per stem. Can you imagine 3 Winston Churchill type flowers on a stem? We do have a rothschildianum x Complex Cross, that I have tried to breed with, but that one was sterile. I will see if I can find a picture of it.

    Actually all plants were pretty uniform and consistent, and more or less looked like the picture posted. So, no there were no deformed flowers.

    Robert
     
  15. Mar 10, 2009 #15
    I found it; It is Paph. Ron Hawley (rothschildianum x Telesis):

    [​IMG]

    Robert
     
  16. Mar 10, 2009 #16
    Robert,

    Thanks for sharing your experiences with this type of breeding.

    Do you think using one of the supposedly 4N multi cultivars ( like a stonei whose name I can't recall at the moment) mated to a 4N Bulldog would increase your chances of producing fertile offspring? Or do you think this is just a compatibility problem?

    In an event, good luck. And, yes indeed, when you succeed in getting 3 Winston Churchill type flowers on a stem I'll be beating a path to your door.

    charlie c
     
  17. Mar 10, 2009 #17

    NYEric

    NYEric

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    When I look at the photo I can only think, "I hope they don't lose the tags!"!!
     
  18. Mar 10, 2009 #18
    Yes, I think if you would use a 4N multifloral, and cross it to a known 4N Complex Bulldog type, that yes that will increase your odds of producing fertile offspring.
     
  19. Mar 11, 2009 #19
    I think Klehm's made some complex x haynaldianum crosses...and named one of them Toll Booth...I think it was Winston Churchill x haynaldianum....
     
  20. Mar 11, 2009 #20
    Ron Hawley is bad, it would be better if there were multiple flowers. The single flower is OK but Telsis is an awfully nice red & IMO nothing was improved upon. As Eric said - don't lose that tag!
     

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