Roth Growth vs Flowering

[MorandiWine]

So I am conducting several experiments with light exposure and nutrients and one of the subjects is blooming time for roths. My question to all of you is this: would you say that there is a direct correlation between the amount of growth vs the age of the plant to get them to bloom? Said another way.....could a plant with multiple growths that is years old bloom faster than an 8 year old plant with one growth?

Thanks in advance,

Tyler

 

[ehanes7612]

in general, any multifloral with multiple growths will bloom faster than a single growth plant...and generally, a multiple growth multifloral will be older than a single growth, of course there are exceptions but they are just exceptions ...{note:roth seedlings tend to grow at a snails pace no matter how much light or nutrients you give them, and overfertilizing (as well as too much light) will set the plant back..i have about 100 roth seedlings in various stages and i marked their growth over the summer/winter and spring....except for some exceptions, (which are few, about 3 percent) the growth rate was the same for all 3 seasons ( I live in seattle where i get about 500 FC max during the day in winter)}. Now when a plant is ready to bloom (usually with at least a year old second growth) you will need strong light, lots of watering and fertilizer (esp for roths ) to keep it healthy while budding and to ensure its not the last bloom you will get, but with this in mind, i would not try to force bloom a one growth plant if you plan on it living

 

[Rick]

I don't have enough roth seedlings to play with anymore for a research project, but the few I have left accelerated after cutting back on K. Similarly a large seedling that I bought back in 2002 remained as a "compact" plant, never getting more than a 12" leaf span. It would sometimes get up to 3-4 growths, and then lose the oldest growths (and most of its roots) over and over. And never trying to bloom.

I set it up in a basket about 16 months ago and now its got a leaf span of about 18-20 inches, and 4 or 5 growths! Now it looks like a regular roth.

As Ehanes hinted, "over fertilizing" can shut them down. The reduced K stuff I've been doing indicates you can feed the normal amounts of N (50 - 100ppm) per week, but skip the K and give them plenty of Ca/Mg, and they'll grow as fast as any other multi.

In the wild roths come from places of serpentine geology. Lots of Mg and silicates. Very low in Ca and virtually non existent in K. I found a paper on leaf tissue concentrations of trees over serpentine geology in Puerto Rico. Surprisingly, calcium concentrations were still higher than Mg, but both were still higher than K (as typical for plants found over just about any other geology).

Although the Mg was lower than Ca, it was generally closer in ratio than typical for a limestone based forest.

Subsequently you may add influence of Mg to your list of parameters.

 

[Rick]

Hopefully Paphman 910 will pitch in. He's also grown a bunch of roth from seed up in BC.

I can recall an old post of his where he had roth seedlings growing at normal rates (for multis in general) and blooming at 5 years out of flask.

 

[ehanes7612]

breeding has a lot do with it too...from the ten crosses i have bought from Sam ..Oriental Red x MM has grown the fastest (for the entire flask) ..twice as fast as all the others..i have one or two from each other flask that are supergrowers but not as consistent as ORx MM

 

[Justin]

Like Ehanes said, roths usually bloom with one mature growth and at least a year-old new growth off of the mature one. They can also bloom with a new start, at least you hope they have that. Sometimes they will send out a start right after blooming is complete but that can be dicey if it is only a one-growth plant.

It also varies very much by clone. Some love to bloom as soon as a growth is mature, others take years and years and years…

I blasted buds on 4 different roths this year from overwatering when the buds hadn’t emerged yet. That was new for me as I had never had that problem in the past. Two were on relatively new divisions so I wasn’t sad since the plant could put that energy into the new growths instead.

Ed, from your Orchid Inn flasks, how is Gigantic x Perfection doing? They are the fastest flask for me. Followed by Rex x Perfection, Sam’s Best x Canadian Club, then Gigantic x Canadian Club.

I have an older batch from ‘Rex Jr’ x ‘MM Best’ that are NBS now after 5 years so they are right on track. The flask I had that performed the very worst was MM x Self. I lost all but 3 plants from that flask and those that are left are pretty slow. My flat of OZ roth seedlings are BS now and I’m hoping the first will bloom next year.

 

[Paphman910]

To answer your question, multigrowth roth that are large general flower more easily than an an 8 year old seedling with a single large growth. What I notice is that the new growths on the multigrowth roth matures in 2-3 years whereas when you start off with a young tiny seedling, it can take 5-7 years before it reaches maturity. The seedling will then need to make another new growth that is 1/3 the size of the mature growth before it flowers. I grow them under a 400 Metal Halide with night temperature not going below 20C year round! What I have noticed is that other members of my society are shocked to see the roth being 2-3X the size of there seedling in 2 years. Warmth and constant light is very important to roth seedlings growth.

I purchased a Paph roths 'Mont Millais' x self from Orchid Inn 2 years ago that was 10-12 cm leafspan and now it is about 25 cm leafspan and has been a pain to grow! Very slow and now begining to show signs of growing fast as I see the new leaf growing with another new leaf coming.


Paphman910

 

[ehanes7612]

Like Ehanes said, roths usually bloom with one mature growth and at least a year-old new growth off of the mature one. They can also bloom with a new start, at least you hope they have that. Sometimes they will send out a start right after blooming is complete but that can be dicey if it is only a one-growth plant.

It also varies very much by clone. Some love to bloom as soon as a growth is mature, others take years and years and years…

I blasted buds on 4 different roths this year from overwatering when the buds hadn’t emerged yet. That was new for me as I had never had that problem in the past. Two were on relatively new divisions so I wasn’t sad since the plant could put that energy into the new growths instead.

Ed, from your Orchid Inn flasks, how is Gigantic x Perfection doing? They are the fastest flask for me. Followed by Rex x Perfection, Sam’s Best x Canadian Club, then Gigantic x Canadian Club.

I have an older batch from ‘Rex Jr’ x ‘MM Best’ that are NBS now after 5 years so they are right on track. The flask I had that performed the very worst was MM x Self. I lost all but 3 plants from that flask and those that are left are pretty slow. My flat of OZ roth seedlings are BS now and I’m hoping the first will bloom next year.

funny you should ask, Gig x Perf was my first flask and i grew them in too much light ..killed off half of them..the others recovered (took a year) and they are growing pretty fast...Gig x CC are pretty slow also ..I dont have the others you listed..these are in the in the middle range of growing (Jim Krull x CC, Rex x CC, Sams Choice x Perfection, Golden Boy x Giant Wings, Black Diamond x Atticus, SPider x Atticus, Fine Five x Atticus)..i am pretty amazed by my OR x MM..they are a great combination, i wouldnt be surprised if one blooms in two years (5 years from flask)