Re: jackii

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Gcroz

2yr HCC Awarded Stud
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Ok, I've recently had discussions regarding giagantifolium here, but I'm curious if there has been a change to the law regarding jackii. Glen Decker talked with me in Feb. and said that FWS regards jackii as malipoense and in the recent Orchids article about canhii, jackii is listed as a var. of malipoense.

So, it would seem that jackii is not a separate species, but a var. of a legal plant. Where does this put it? How is the AOS treating it?
 
Another good discussion, Gcroz.

The real issue in your interpretation is in your last line "..., but a var. of a legal plant". ANY individual plant collected or otherwise obtained against CITES regulations is illegal. Thus, implying ALL malipoense (senso stricto and var. jackii and "var. heipii" and fma. markianum) are "legal" is inherently very wrong. It depends on the history of the exact plant in question. Not a species as a whole.

According to US interpretation, for CITES, any plant must be collected with the blessing of the country of origin AND the parents of any seed-grown hybrid (species selfing or outcross or "true hybrid") must also. Flasklings of an illegally collected plant are just as illegal as the parent plants. Paperwork must originate from the country of origin, so papers from Germany do not properly apply to a Vietnamese plant.

What we're looking at is my last point in the giga thread- plants eventually become so widespread in the hobby it's hard for the authorities to keep up with it. It would take an army to hunt down every last malipoense in cultivation and determine which are legal or not then take actaion against the owners, so malipoense falls off the radar.

Things like jackii and anitum DO raise red flags with those with "badges" because those taxa (regardless of taxonomic rank) are newer to the hobby and there are fewer around. Look at web sites of US vendors. You will not see many listing anitum as a parent for fear they will get a knock on the greenhouse door. Can't blame them! Same is true for jackii- more people have them and their hybrids (although jackii hybrids are commonly inferior to the same made with malipoense IMO) for sale than you'd expect.

I don't think AOS has a firm stand on jackii. I'd guess they'd nix a jackii award unless it had very clear documentation?

Bottom line, buyer/exhibitor beware.
 
I should have clarified my statement more, but I think you caught the gist. Essentially my question revolved around the concept of acceptability of jackii based on the "mainstreaming" of malipoense. CITES documentation, being what it is, and enforcement become more difficult the longer the plants are in the trade.

Ernie, thanks for great response.
 
Forgot to mention the US is one of the only countries that does the legal parent thing for flasklings. You'll see lots of random references to that on this forum.
 
i think that the status of something depends on whether a lumper or split decided which is a species and which is a variety, but i may be very wrong.

My understanding is that this is not mentioned anywhere in the CITES text, right?


my understanding is that you are correct.
 

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