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A Message from Glen Decker:

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Heather

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From Glen Decker:

Dear Fellow Slipper Lovers,

I have asked Heather to post this for me ... Since I would like to clarify some "facts" and hope to put all the bad blood on the forum behind us all.

First, I would like to say the Piping Rock Orchids is solely owned and operated by me, Glen Decker. The partnerships that are discussed are with Alfredo Manrique, Centro de Jardineria Manrique, Lima, Peru, not Piping Rock Orchids. There are a few agreements in place regarding Phragmipedium kovachii. The first agreement is between Alfredo Manrique, Fritz Schomburg of Tropical Propagations and myself. This agreement allows Piping Rock Orchids in conjunction with Tropical Propagations to sell kovachii and all of its hybrids produced by Alfredo Manrique for the exception of Canada. With this, there is a second agreement with Peter Croezen, Green Canyon Orchids Laboratories, Canada. Peter is a good friend of Alfredo's and when we made our agreement, it was Alfredo's wishes that Peter have control of the Canadian market, which we felt and still feel is more then a reasonable request. So, the second agreement is between Alfredo Manrique and Peter Croezen, which extends to an agreement between Green Canyon Orchids and Piping Rock Orchids ... basically stating that Green Canyon has all rights to kovachii in Canada. I offer all this information, since it seems that clarification was needed ... We all work together when it involves kovachii, but none of us interfere with each others businesses.

The real purpose is to offer some defense to Peter and the information he offers, whether you want to hear it or not, Peter will offer it to you. I have never met Peter and outside of e-mailing with him, is the only thing I know. I could be standing next to him getting coffee and I would not know who he is. My point ... from my experience with dealing with Peter ... Peter does his homework! I'm not going to go as far as to say that everything he posts is 100% accurate, because we are only human and all are entitled to make mistakes, but generally speaking his information is usually factual to the best of his knowledge and mine. I will tell you that Peter would never maliciously post false accusation just to get a rise from others, however, I do know that his postings can sometimes stir the pot a little, especially if it is something you don't care to see.

Moving on ... Since I brought kovachii into this country, I have been attacked and accused over and over. I have let most of it slide of my back, but sometimes venting is required ...

So, here are some "facts" ...

- Piping Rock Orchids has 14 legal hybrids growing stateside, with all approved paperwork.
- We flowered the first kovachii hybrid (2/25/07) ... kovachii x Saint Ouen = Haley Decker
- We flowered the second kovachii hybrid (2/28/07) ... kovachii x besseae = Fritz Schomburg
- Phragmipediums can flower 10 months out of flask
- The first hybrids that we flowered were out of flask 13 months
- Both registrations were approved by the RHS on March 7, 2007
- The first posting of HP's plant (as far as I know) was on the Slipper Forum on 3/9/07 - two days after the registration was approved. The applications were sent out on 2/28 and the slides for both registration were imprinted right on the slide as 2/28/07 ... over a week before HP's plant was posted.
... HERE IS WHERE IT GOT UGLY ...
- It was posted that I, Glen Decker used HP's photo to register the hybrid of kovachii x besseae
- The accusation was second hand, and the poster retracted his post to wait for further clarification of information, but the damage was done and isn't going away.
- It doesn't seem to matter how much information is sent to HP, he is convinced that his picture was used
- I have personally sent HP four e-mails and called him twice to receive one partial message on my answering machine, frankly stating that he didn't like my e-mails. The first two e-mails were quite civil, but what else did you expect, you accused me of plagiarism!!!
- Since the first two hybrids, he has since flowered three other kovachii hybrids and are presently awaiting approval of their registrations.
- In Redlands, we received our first flower quality award ... kovachii x Cape Sunset = Suzanne Decker 'Piping Rock' AM/AOS
- Finally, there was the RHS final decision in favor of Piping Rock Orchids on our registration ... e-mail attached.

To this point, I have always considered HP Norton a friend, so it surprised and upset me that he would accuse me of stealing the picture of his plant. My first couple e-mails to him was as a friend and I placed no blame on him for his actions, but blamed Monolo Arias for feeding him (HP) bad information. However, as time has gone by, I find that only three weeks ago (+/-) he was in Pittsburgh speaking of the situation and continuing to accuse me of wrong doing. I was approached by three different people in Redlands about HP's accusations only last week. So, am I to stand here idle while being accused by a man who many think can do no wrong ... well, the answer is NO and I have waited three months for it to go away. All correspondence with the RHS have also been sent to HP, so HP is up to date with the findings from the RHS validating my registration, however it seems that he refuses to acknowledge it. It was requested that the slide I used to register my hybrid be sent to Arias, and I gave permission for the RHS to do so. If HP has any further question, he can contact Monolo and see it for himself. As much as an apology would have been nice from either HP or Monolo, it is not expect nor do I think I will ever get.

Finally, I hold no ill feelings from anyone who has attacked me ... I'm a big boy, so for the sake of being civil with each other, the forum should be an avenue for all slipper orchid lovers to converse freely, whether you like the subject matter or not.

"Can't we all just get along"

Thank you, Glen.
 
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Heather

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From Julian Shaw via Glen Decker:

Dear Colleagues

I am writing to let you know the results of our discussions and investigations concerning your hybrids involving Pharg. kovachii.


As you both have indicated that there is no dispute over the registration of Phrag. Haley Decker (kovachii x Saint Ouen) I intend to publish this registration in the next list.

The disagreement appears to be over the registration of kovachii x besseae as Phrag. Fritz Schomburg.
As I understand it, there seem to be two mains points of contention 1. the date of application and 2. who owns the plant in the photographs.

1. With regard to the date, the application from Piping Rock was both posted and received at this office before the application from Peruflora. We always go by date priority for registration in cases such as this where two or more applications compete for the same hybrid.

2. Having examined both sets of photographs, I (and the independant reviewer) both agree they are of different plants taken on different dates. The photograph as was supplied by Peruflora and which appeared on the web is not the same plant that appears in the colour slide from Piping Rock.

Further to this both the e-mail from INRENA forwarded to me and the copies of CITES permits which we have examined show that both hybrids originated in Peru and are legitimate.

Both names proposed have been with the consent of the Peruvian originators.

In view of these findings I can see no reason to reject the application from Piping Rock to register kovachii x besseae as Fritz Schomburg.

I would like to obtain the agreement of both parties to this conclusion.

At the RHS Orchid Registration we try to be impartial and fair when disputes arise, as they occassionally do over such registration cases as this. We (the registrar and external reviewer) have examined all the claims and evidence presented to us and come to the same conclusions.

I would like to suggest that the images of the hybrid kovachii x besseae supplied by Piping Rock, be made available to Peruflora, that it may be evident a different plant is involved, and that consequently this disagreement might be resolved, in order that we can all continue to work together to grow and register interesting orchid hybrids.

I take this opportunity to extend my best wishes and greetings to the parties involved.

Yours sincerely

Julian Shaw
Orchid Registrar
Royal Horticultural Society
 
E

Eric Muehlbauer

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Thanks Heather for posting this info....hopefully it will straighten at least some of these issues out for us. Take care, and have a great week! Eric
 
B

Bolero

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Well thought out and written. I'm glad this is all cleared up.

;-)

After a few drinks I feel a group hug coming on..............(((HUG)))
 

NYEric

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Remember when this issue first came up and I stated simply "Stand back"; I wish that advice had been followed. Now everybody just shut up so the buying [and selling] of Phrag kovachii hybrids can proceed smoothly.
 

Hien

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NYEric said:
Remember when this issue first came up and I stated simply "Stand back"; I wish that advice had been followed. Now everybody just shut up so the buying [and selling] of Phrag kovachii hybrids can proceed smoothly.
All of the background noise never stops me to buy from Glen.:rollhappy:
 

slippertalker

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NYEric said:
Me either but I fear it had affected the selling!
At the end of the day, all of the controversy and hype just helps sales.....I do have to wonder whether the escapade has been worth the heartache and bad will. This species and it's hybrids seem to carry a curse.
 

gonewild

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slippertalker said:
At the end of the day, all of the controversy and hype just helps sales.....I do have to wonder whether the escapade has been worth the heartache and bad will. This species and it's hybrids seem to carry a curse.
The kovachii species and hybrids carry no curse. I completely enjoy mine and they give me no heartache or bad will. Anyone who has bad will over what is said or written about a plant has their own curse. Let's not blame it on a plant, all of the problems stem from human bad behavior. If anything the kovachii spirit has a since of humor and enjoys a good drama.

Plants rule humans drool. :clap:
 
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Grandma M

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QUOTE: The kovachii species and hybrids carry no curse. I completely enjoy mine and they give me no heartache or bad will. Anyone who has bad will over what is said or written about a plant has their own curse. Let's not blame it on a plant, all of the problems stem from human bad behavior. If anything the kovachii spirit has a since of humor and enjoys a good drama.

Lance, your response it right on the money. I Agree.
 

SlipperFan

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I agree with Lance.

And I want to thank Heather for posting this message from Glen. I'm really glad that Glen has said for himself what is going on. There has been much argument and speculation about Glen's role in all this, and this should set the record straight once and for all.
 

Heather

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I should just add, we worked for a while last night to get that message posted correctly.

Glen emailed me, he just does not have time to deal with the forum, but this is a good compromise. I am glad he spoke up also.
 

Hien

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I reread Glen's post again.
I am very impressed with his composure (and also with his composition writing skill, wish I have both)
Glen, if you read this, You did what a gentleman would have done.
Peoples may not be able to figure out that they have wrong information, but time can change that. So don't give up on them.
In the event that thing does not change ever, you still remain a gentleman for not leaving the HIGH ROAD yourself.
 

slippertalker

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gonewild said:
The kovachii species and hybrids carry no curse. I completely enjoy mine and they give me no heartache or bad will. Anyone who has bad will over what is said or written about a plant has their own curse. Let's not blame it on a plant, all of the problems stem from human bad behavior. If anything the kovachii spirit has a since of humor and enjoys a good drama.

Plants rule humans drool. :clap:
If there is a curse, it seem to involve the crazy humans that chase this plant. Starting with the adventure with Selby and Kovach, continuing with smuggling and accusations between various factions, tiny seedlings being sold (and stolen), Chuck Acker's terrible financial tumble, and the most recent RHS registration dialogue all contribute to a sad story of human foibles.

I have been growing a flask now for a few months, and the seedlings seem to grow just fine with good water and cool temperatures. They don't seem cursed in my greenhouse, and get along just fine with their neighbors.

The vendors of this plant have taken more than their share of abuse, and of course they profit (or not) from the sales. The controversy certainly is much more intense than anything regarding Phrag besseae.
 

WolfDog1 (C. Williams)

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Seems I remember hearing that Antec got a lot of flack about Paph vietnamense as well.

I talked to Glen the day I received my kovachii seedlings.
I mentioned the forum to him and we both laughed a lot on
the phone. He was very personable.

I sure hope I get to meet him in person at the 19WOC.

Craig
 

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