Paphiopedilum Rothschilidanum question

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jeroenarends

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I have one question.
My name is Jeroen Arends i am a beginner orchid grower from the Netherlands.

I have Paphiopedilum rothschildianum as a small seedling.
In books and on the internet they say is from soil that doesn’t contain lime.
But this site says it’s from ultra basic rock:
http://slipperorchids.info/paphdatasheets/polyantha/rothschildianum/index.html

I thought that lime was the component that caused alkaline soils?

Is there a way I can give my Rothschildianum an alkaline medium without addling lime?
 
hello Jeroen and welcome,
This Paph needs very bright light and regular fertilizing to grow well, fast.
I'm watering mines with municipal water, pH=7, and add a little slow release fertiliser (such as osmocote) on the top of the pot (once each spring) + organic fertiliser in the water at medium rate. I don't add any lime, calcium is into the water.
Good luck!!:)
 
The ultra basic rocks originate from basalt, or from eroded basalt and metaomoric rocks derived from basalt. Mt. Kinabalu (source habitat for roth) is one of the volcanoes that the llava flows usually tend to deposits basalt.

Most of us in the USA find that adding a little horticultural grade lime, or crushed oyster shell. For us the crushed oyster shell is easily available at any farm supply feed store. It is used as grit for poultry. It is mild enough in its pH buffering that Paph rothschildianum and its hybrids respond quite well to it. When I use oystershell, I don't think roth really 'notices' that it is not growing on andesite, or any of the other basalts.
I personally have had unsatisfactory and unpredictable results from horticultural lime. Sometimes it is great, then occasionally it burns the plants roots up. I think it is a product quality issue. Some bags are not completely hydrated. So I use crushed oystershell.
 
I swear by crushed OYSTER SHELLS. Many paph species (and primaries too) enjoy the more basic media environment oyster shells provide. Ive always been worried applying hort lime - anyway, I know that a couple of others have suggested this so Im just adding my own voice.
WELCOME
 
The geology that roths are found over is called serpentine. It is ultrabasic and when directly exposed can have a pH of 11. Most plants (include roths) are rarely directly in contact with it. Serpentine is very different from calcareous (limestone) geologies in that it is very low in calcium but high in magnesium and silicates.

In practice roths do well in cultivation without high pot pH or high calcium content. In general they will respond well to mixes that contain some oyster shell that will help keep the pH neutral and act as a sink for phosphorus. You may also consider some periodic waterings with about a teaspoon/gal of Epsom salts which will give it a boost of magnesium now and then. But all in all my roths haven't been as picky about potting mix or fertilizer as they are about having bright light with breezy humid conditions to keep from getting too hot.
 
Thanks for al your information.

Paul said:
hello Jeroen and welcome,
This Paph needs very bright light and regular fertilizing to grow well, fast.
I'm watering mines with municipal water, pH=7, and add a little slow release fertiliser (such as osmocote) on the top of the pot (once each spring) + organic fertiliser in the water at medium rate. I don't add any lime, calcium is into the water.
Good luck!!:)
Click to expand...

Organic fertilizer sounds very good.
What can I use for that?
For some orchids I use dried cow manure. I apply this in the summer on the pot(not for paphs yet)
Can I add some to water and let it extract nutrients in it?

I never heard of slow release fertilizers for orchids. I will look into it.

I will look for some crussed oystershels but I don’t know if it’s available in the Netherlands.

Until now I give al my orchids the same water.
I prepare this from R.O water by adding fertilizer (between 500 – 1000 µs/cm)
The pH is approximately 6,5.
On this site I see its better to water my pahs with water of a pH 7,5-8.
I have added lime and let is stand overnight but the pH is still below 7.

Can I also apply high pH water to al my orchids?
Maybe this neutralizes the acid formed during the decaying of the soil?
 
jeroenarends said:
Thanks for al your information.



Organic fertilizer sounds very good.
What can I use for that?

I use Biogrow, you can find it easily in growshops. There are others, but this is the fertiliser I have the best results at home... I use it 1 to 2mL/L every week, less in winter days.

For some orchids I use dried cow manure. I apply this in the summer on the pot(not for paphs yet)
Can I add some to water and let it extract nutrients in it?

I never heard of slow release fertilizers for orchids. I will look into it.

You can use it only on already strong rooted plants, and only those which eats a lot (roths, philippinense for example). do not use it on a small, young plant.

I will look for some crussed oystershels but I don’t know if it’s available in the Netherlands.

Until now I give al my orchids the same water.
I prepare this from R.O water by adding fertilizer (between 500 – 1000 µs/cm)
The pH is approximately 6,5.
On this site I see its better to water my pahs with water of a pH 7,5-8.
I have added lime and let is stand overnight but the pH is still below 7.

Can I also apply high pH water to al my orchids?
Maybe this neutralizes the acid formed during the decaying of the soil?
Click to expand...

Epiphytes orchids don't need high pH. 5,5-7 is suitable, 6-6,5 is the best.
Most Paphs likes pH 6,5-7. Some of them need 7 or more (sanderianum at least), some others prefer more or less pH 6 (lowii & co, adductum & co, PNG Paphs, venustum, sukhakulii, sangii, tigrinum...)
 If you don't want to care too much, just had oister shells, or crushed eggs shells, and water as your other Paphs. when it will be stronger you will be able to fertilize a little more. But light is the first clue for it.:)
 
goldenrose said:
I don't know about you but I can't throw egg shells away! Actually I use both!
WELCOME to the forum, the French Connection is growing!
Click to expand...

As you are from Holland, you have a lot of sea with beaches full of mossels, clams and shells! I suppose that this should work, too!!?. Jean
 
Yes i think i can get some mossels shels en crusch those.
But the problem is that paph. rotschildianum is from soil without lime..
If i add eggs shells or something simmilar i that not going to harm him??
 
jeroenarends said:
Yes i think i can get some mossels shels en crusch those.
But the problem is that paph. rotschildianum is from soil without lime..
If i add eggs shells or something simmilar i that not going to harm him??
Click to expand...

No it won't. The pH is more important than the calcium concentration.

You may also consider bone meal.
 
Thanks for al your info.
I just repotted my paph. Specerianum seedling because i suspected rooth rot.
Because the medium was alway very wett.
But the roots were oke.

I have measured the pH and is was 6,5 so that to acidic.
Salt contenc was low (>400µs/cm).

My paph Rothschildianum had the same (but fresser) medium.

In the new mixture i did soms lime because this species likes it.

If i in the fuer only water with pH 7,5 wil this be enough to keep the pH of the medium high?

Should i repot my Rothschildianum too?
 
Hey - I thinks - Hard boil some eggs and use the shells as a cheap product for calcium - but remember check the PH of your water before you start adding anything - but you can get oyster shells from farm supplies places - From what I know this is more important for Brackys which always have been collected from " lime-stone cliffs " If your plant is growing good in a pot from the seller - why change it - I really dont like changing mixes and pots if the lil plants are doing ok - J
 
Hoi Jeroen!

Welkom! het is leuk om nog een andere Nederlander te zien op Slipper Talk!

To all those people who cannot speak Dutch I just welcomed him and said it was nice to see a fellow Dutch person on Slippertalk. Ha! now I can gossip to someone in Dutch and no one will be able to understand!

It seems that we are getting more people from Europe on this forum, which is a good thing!

Robert
 

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