Paphiopedilum chamberlainianum var. latifolium

[JustinR]

Sequential bloomer. It's kind of an odd one with big round leaves. Vegetatively it reminds me of a cabbage for some reason . It grew pretty fast from seedling to flowering in 2 years. The comparison photos are with victoria mariae.

 

[mrhappyrotter]

This almost looks like it was destined to be hybridized with sukhakuhlii. Pretty neat variety. I think the flowers have an interesting "hybrid-like" appearance.

 

[Roth]

Looking at the flowers, it looks more like the kalinae type than the latifolium one. the kalinae type has as well large round leaves, but they are very rare nowadays. The leaves of latifolium have a different structure and color as well...

The other one is definitely not a victoria-mariae, it is a hybrid. I have seen quite a lot of those hybrids passed as victoria mariae over the years in Germany.

Those are part of the epidemics of primary hybrids sold as 'species' in Germany.

 

[SlipperKing]

Looking at the flowers, it looks more like the kalinae type than the latifolium one. the kalinae type has as well large round leaves, but they are very rare nowadays. The leaves of latifolium have a different structure and color as well...

The other one is definitely not a victoria-mariae, it is a hybrid. I have seen quite a lot of those hybrids passed as victoria mariae over the years in Germany.

Those are part of the epidemics of primary hybrids sold as 'species' in Germany.

I agree. kalinae type. Drop the latifolium

 

[Roth]

The problem is that as well

https://www.ebay.de/itm/145567426579
Sold as urbanianum, that's a hybrid from a famous wholesaler... You can have as a bonus the option to buy it as agusii, the name is better, or sp. nov. Papua, like in Dresde last year. Chose the tag...

If you like a 'California Remake' fairrieanum, that's here:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/386682552283
Generic fairrieanum, nothing special, sure not from any US breeding...

If you prefer to buy your 'California Remake' as 'Dewlish Warren', it is as well possible, here:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/145567425467
Same plant source, already 2 names...

Another seller. Both plants are effectively from the same wholesaler who sells the bogus 'chamberlainianum var. latifolium' and the 'victoria mariae'. When those plants are sold out of the wholesaler they are 'generic'. When they are resold, it can be anything with prestigious nametags...

It will be highly concerning in the future actually, because most of the Paph trade, with a handful of exceptions, consists of swappers known as Paphiopedilum specialists, who source their plants from a wholesaler that remains hidden ( and hence does not care much about what are the plants exactly).

I can explain the reason easily why so many are primary hybrids. The wholesalers have a fixed purchase price for the flasks, never more. To match their lowball price, the only option is to use a commercial lab at 0.6 eur, and sell to them at 0.7 eur as an example. Send capsules to a lab, 1000 x 0.6 eur = 600 eur. Sell 1000 x 0.7 eur = 700 eur, voila, 100 eur profit x many 'species'

To be sure there are 1000 plants produced, and quickly, the best option some of those hidden 'breeders' found is to sell primary hybrids, high germination rate, fast growing in the lab, profit 100 eur/capsule after not even a year. The real species would take way too long to make...

 

[JustinR]

Thanks for the info and background. That victoria-mariae is actually a hybrid doesn't surprise me, it was pretty cheap and already in spike. Pretty cool that I got a kalinae, it is an interesting plant.

 

[Roth]

Thanks for the info and background. That victoria-mariae is actually a hybrid doesn't surprise me, it was pretty cheap and already in spike. Pretty cool that I got a kalinae, it is an interesting plant.

That's the problem as well, it is not very certain that it is a kalinae... It can be a complex hybrid involving kalinae as well... Most of the cochlos were bred in all direction by the pot plant traders in the Netherlands in the 90s...

The only way to know more is to self it, and see what comes out of the selfing, grow some dozens plants and bloom them, and it is not a 100% guarantee. If it is the same source as the victoria-mariae, it will be a hybrid anyway....

 

[Hilmar]

dear Roth,
why do you think that the two mentioned fairrieanum at EBay Germany are from same source ?

 

[Roth]

dear Roth,
why do you think that the two mentioned fairrieanum at EBay Germany are from same source ?

Well because they come from the same source and same flasks... who sell wholesale as well, like here:

https://europlantas.pt/produto/paphiopedilum-fairrieanum/
Same plant, same breeding, the potting mix might be changed just before, but, of course, they are the same.... Sometimes they are purchased younger and grown on, rarely recently, but they are the same parents and source.

If we take a more obvious example:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/145567426579
This is of course, an urbanianum primary hybrid, not the pure species, let's say source A



Another urbanianum primary hybrid, let's say source B

There are sources C ( a wholesaler in paphs in Germany) and source D ( a 'Paphiopedilum specialist' in Germany), both exported to the US from Germany. Source E, in Germany as well, sold quite a few too. The 5 sources have different parental names/history for the plants... One point in common, none of them is selling Paphiopedilum urbanianum species as urbanianum, but a hybrid, that is the same in the 5 cases.

So out of these there are 3 options, not 4, but only 3 options:

- Option A : 5 different honest breeders selfed or sibbed a pure, amazing urbanianum, and 5 times, there was a mistake, and 5 times those poor honest persons did make an hybrid by mistake, and the same hybrid! In that case, any of them should play and win the Euromillions lottery.

- Option B: 5 different resellers bought a NoID hybrids as urbanianum from 1 single source, who had a cross of what seems to be a kind of Maudiae x urbanianum. As they did not know until their customers bloomed them, it outed the whole system.

- Option C: 1 breeder made a mistake, and flasks leaked from the contract laboratory to several other growers

After that, it is a matter of belief, or faith, but yep, they are from the same source, there is no discussion or doubt possible about that.