Paph. Screaming Eagle

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orcoholic

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Does anyone have an opinion on whether this is really Screaming Eagle? Apparently it is a very rare hybrid. I got it from a group of $10 tiny seedlings. As far as I can tell, it is, but I'd appreciate all opinions. Also, if not, what do you think it is.

 
It certainly isn't Julius. I can't really see any roth in it. The pouch is yellow for a start. Screaming Eagle is Berenice x sanderianum. So it is a secondary hybrid which means the potential variation can be great. To me this looks to have a lot of Berenice in it. Maybe it is a Screaming Eagle where the sanderianum just hasn't come through. In a secondary hybrid this is possible. Maybe this is not what you would hope for in a Screaming Eagle. But I'm not sure how anyone can be so definitive in saying this is not a SE. It may well not be but I can't see any attributes that says it cannot be this hybrid. I can see lots of phillipinense and lowii which are two of the species in this cross.
 
It certainly isn't Julius. I can't really see any roth in it. The pouch is yellow for a start. Screaming Eagle is Berenice x sanderianum. So it is a secondary hybrid which means the potential variation can be great. To me this looks to have a lot of Berenice in it. Maybe it is a Screaming Eagle where the sanderianum just hasn't come through. In a secondary hybrid this is possible. Maybe this is not what you would hope for in a Screaming Eagle. But I'm not sure how anyone can be so definitive in saying this is not a SE. It may well not be but I can't see any attributes that says it cannot be this hybrid. I can see lots of phillipinense and lowii which are two of the species in this cross.

Dorsal sepal shape is very different from any Screaming Eagle I've seen, plus the petals are short and the shoulders are missing. Color is similar, but that's about all.
 
Dorsal sepal shape is very different from any Screaming Eagle I've seen, plus the petals are short and the shoulders are missing. Color is similar, but that's about all.

I haven’t seen one look like that either Dot. But then I haven’t seen hundreds of plants of this cross. The plant Rick showed is fairly typical of the outcome you see with this hybrid and is a good representation of the species involved. But they won’t all look like that. As it is not a primary hybrid it is not possible to define this hybrid with a specific phenotype. If you flowered a lot of plants there will be much variation. Most will look like the plant Rick showed but there will be some outliers. When you cross Berenice with sanderianum I would expect that some (not a lot) will be heavily dominated by the Berenice parent. The plant posted here looks a lot like Berenice but with shorter petals. This plant may well be mislabelled but I also don’t think the outcome is totally impossible given the parents involved.
 
I haven’t seen one look like that either Dot. But then I haven’t seen hundreds of plants of this cross. The plant Rick showed is fairly typical of the outcome you see with this hybrid and is a good representation of the species involved. But they won’t all look like that. As it is not a primary hybrid it is not possible to define this hybrid with a specific phenotype. If you flowered a lot of plants there will be much variation. Most will look like the plant Rick showed but there will be some outliers. When you cross Berenice with sanderianum I would expect that some (not a lot) will be heavily dominated by the Berenice parent. The plant posted here looks a lot like Berenice but with shorter petals. This plant may well be mislabelled but I also don’t think the outcome is totally impossible given the parents involved.

Good points. But still, to my unscientific eyes, too different from the norm.
 
I'm with David.
I don't see roth, but lots of phili and lowii.
Sanderanium's super long twisty petals do not always show to full potential.

I think it is what it says it is. screaming eagle. definitely not Julius.
 
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