Paph. Dollgoldi

[Leo_5313]

First bloom. I really like it.

 

[SlipperFan]

Shape looks like Dollgoldi, but not the color -- at least, not ones I've seen.

 

[W. Beetus]

Shape looks like Dollgoldi, but not the color -- at least, not ones I've seen.

I agree. I see Dollgoldi as having more horizontal petals from the rothschildianum parent.

 

[Jorch]

Looks more like a Harold Koopowitz to me? Nice color and markings though

 

[gonewild]

This is Dollgoldi.
Most often yellow but Dollgoldi can be shades of green and even very brown.

 

[John M]

This is Dollgoldi.
Most often yellow but Dollgoldi can be shades of green and even very brown.

I agree with the others. If it was Dollgoldi, it would not have the netting design on the petals. Paph. armeniacum does not have any markings on the petals of course and roth has stripes, not netting. However, malipoense does have a netting design on the petals. I'd like to see a photo of the staminode sheild.

I just did a search for Harold Koopowitz on this forum and found a number of photos that have been posted here. There is no doubt in my mind that this is HK, not Dollgoldi. I've seen Dollgoldis with strong stripe colour from the roth; but, the background colour is always bright yellow, not green. Also, check out these photos of HK: http://http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16123&highlight=Harold+Koopowitz

 

[JeanLux]

St. Swithin x armeniacum? Nice anyway!!! Jean

 

[SlipperKing]

Double check with your source because I think others are correct, HK BUT A nice HK!

 

[Bolero]

Fast becoming my favourite hybrid, I have a seedling tray full of these and cannot wait for the day when they finally flower.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Shiva]

I agree with JohnM. This is a HK, and one I'd like to have.

 

[Leo_5313]

Hi everyone,
Thanks for the information. I have been wondering myself if this is a Dollgoldi. I would be extermely happy if this is a HK but the label says Dollgoldi!

 

[gonewild]

I agree with the others. If it was Dollgoldi, it would not have the netting design on the petals. Paph. armeniacum does not have any markings on the petals of course and roth has stripes, not netting. However, malipoense does have a netting design on the petals. I'd like to see a photo of the staminode sheild.

I would certainly not say that it is not an HK. But it is consistent with some Dollgoldi I have seen bloom.

Here is a pic of one Dollgoldi and you can see that it does have a type of "netting" in the petals.

 

[gonewild]

Here's two Dollgoldi siblings blooming at the same time....

Normal

Green with extra heavy stripes and different staminoid but they definately came from the same flask.
And the foliage was the same. Flower size about the same.

 

[KyushuCalanthe]

Lance, Ooooo....Ahhh..... :clap:

Leo, I'd stick with the Dollgoldi name. Every HK I've seen was green.

 

[toddybear]

Wonderful!

 

[John M]

You know Lance, assuming your information is correct, you've given me lots to ponder. Before this, of the two clones you've posted, I wouldn't dispute the validity of the more yellow one; but, I would dispute the more green one. Yet, you say that thay came from the same capsule. So (assuming that is correct), there seems to be far more variety in this grex than I had realized. I wonder if the capule that the two examples you show was the result of a selfing of Dollgoldi or from crossing armeniacum x roth? If it was from a selfing of Dollgoldi, there would be far more variety in the offspring. Still, where does that green colour come from? Hmmm?

I had a look at the photos of my Dollgoldi that I posted on ST last year and found that even my flowers did have some netting in the petals. I'd forgotten that and remembered the bright yellow colour more. Now, you've made me want to buy at least one flask of Dollgoldi and one of HK and grow them all out to bloom and compare! There definitely is more investigation needed here....at least for me.

In light of the information you've provided, the flower at the beginning of this thead could very well be Dollgoldi. I must look closely at the markings on roth petals sometime. I guess the netting design comes from small markings on roth petals that are not so evident on the roth; but, come out in the hybrid Dollgoldi. Of course, all of this is assuming that the armeniacum used to make the Dollgoldi of this thead was in fact, a true armeniacum. If it was Norito Hasegawa (which looks like a "butch" armeniacum; but, with netting on the petals and green colour in it's genes), that would make sense, considering the "look" of the flower on page 1.

I'd like to learn what others who have bloomed Dollgoldis have to say....

 

[gonewild]

You know Lance, assuming your information is correct, you've given me lots to ponder. Before this, of the two clones you've posted, I wouldn't dispute the validity of the more yellow one; but, I would dispute the more green one. Yet, you say that thay came from the same capsule.

Well I said they came from the same "flask". We have to assume that they came from the same capsule. In all fairness to 100% accuracy is it possible that a few seeds hitch hiked into the flask as stow-aways? I highly doubt it but anything is possible.

So (assuming that is correct), there seems to be far more variety in this grex than I had realized. I wonder if the capule that the two examples you show was the result of a selfing of Dollgoldi or from crossing armeniacum x roth?

It is from a remake of the original cross using the original parents. But the capsule was made by a different breeder. The original Dollgoldi capsule produced only about 12 seedlings, seven of which received awards.

The remake was done and more seedlings resulted and I would not be surprised if some chemical assist was used to increase seed count or germination, if that is even possible. If that were done then could it result in some genetic variation? This idea is only a possible excuse for the variation and not something that I have an info about.

Out of this remake I probably saw about 20 different clones bloom and most were the typical yellow form. But a few were on the green tint side and then the dark example that I posted above.

If it was from a selfing of Dollgoldi, there would be far more variety in the offspring. Still, where does that green colour come from? Hmmm?

Yes where?

As far as I know Dollgoldi has never been selfed or even used successfully as a parent?

Somewhere I have a picture of the original armeniacum used. It looks like it could be a polyploid to me which could also account for the variations?
(That is a question and not a statement of fact)

I had a look at the photos of my Dollgoldi that I posted on ST last year and found that even my flowers did have some netting in the petals. I'd forgotten that and remembered the bright yellow colour more. Now, you've made me want to buy at least one flask of Dollgoldi and one of HK and grow them all out to bloom and compare! There definitely is more investigation needed here....at least for me.

After they bloom side by side and there are some unusual ones people will tell you that you got some of them mixed up! :rollhappy:

In light of the information you've provided, the flower at the beginning of this thead could very well be Dollgoldi. I must look closely at the markings on roth petals sometime.

I'll see if I can fin a CU picture of a roth petal.

I guess the netting design comes from small markings on roth petals that are not so evident on the roth; but, come out in the hybrid Dollgoldi.

Probably the netting is a genetic link to some common ancestry.

Of course, all of this is assuming that the armeniacum used to make the Dollgoldi of this thead was in fact, a true armeniacum.

It was wild collected and as I recall has an FCC award. As I recall from the picture there is no excuse that the "netting" comes from it at all.

If it was Norito Hasegawa (which looks like a "butch" armeniacum; but, with netting on the petals and green colour in it's genes), that would make sense, considering the "look" of the flower on page 1.

I don't think so, but anything is possible. The breeders were trying to replicate the original success of the first Dollgoldi which at the time were worth big+++ money and only a few plants to go around.

I'd like to learn what others who have bloomed Dollgoldis have to say....

Me too! I'm always curious, that's why I threw out the info.

 

[gonewild]

Sorry if this hijacks your thread Leo but it is all evidence as to the true id of your clone.

Here is a pic of P.armeniacum 'Oso Grande' FCC/AOS. This was the original clone used to make the original Dollgoldi cross.
This picture is a scan from an old slide so the image quality is a bit faded.
No "netting" but the tiny pigment spots may have come out that way in the hybrid.

Just for fun I found this scan of the old faded slide when Dollgoldi made it's appearance. That's all one plant.

 

[NYEric]

When you leave the country send these plants to me for safe-keeping, thanks!

 

[gonewild]

When you leave the country send these plants to me for safe-keeping, thanks!

They expatriated a long time ago. ity: