C
Corbin
Guest
This is Paph. callosum x sibling ('CoverGirl' AM/AOS x 'Ching-Hua V-12 SM/TP_)
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This is Paph. callosum x sibling ('CoverGirl' AM/AOS x 'Ching-Hua V-12 SM/TP_)
Roy
Well-Known Member
It looks like its going to be a nice flower Ed & I would love to have one like it but that IMO, its a hybrid. Callosum may be there but a long way back in the parentage. The ventral is one huge give away.
SlipperFan
Addicted
It has great potential.
Roy, do you think line breeding might result in this dorsal?
Roy, do you think line breeding might result in this dorsal?
emydura
Well-Known Member
Truly amazing flower.
David
David
smartie2000
Well-Known Member
The shape is great! but it doesn't resemble what I usually think of when I hear callosum
Yoyo_Jo
Catt's Meow
Well, whatever it is, I really like it - really nice coloring.
SlipperKing
Madd Virologist
Ed, great looking callosum (line bred). Far removed from the wild type but this is what hybridizers/ breeders are looking for! Roy can call it a hybrid and in away it is. Through very selective breeding this is example of the "modern" callosums on the market these days.
JeanLux
Well-Known Member
Anyway, I like it a lot!!! Great shape and super coloring!!!! Jean
Roy
Well-Known Member
Dot, the Dorsal is fine, its the ventral sepal behind the pouch that is too big for a callosum. The width of it is seen in a number of hybrids out of Taiwan in recent years. The best callosums have that great dorsal but only a small but much improved ventral backing the pouch. I would expect this ventral to be seen in the P.Hsinying Web, Ruby Leopard etc crosses. ( which this resembles)
Its a great flower and definitely award potential but not as a species IMO.
G
goldenrose
Guest
:clap::clap::clap:
smartie2000
Well-Known Member
I love large ventral sepal in maudiae types. As an aside, Which species are used to make them larger in maudae-type breeding?
Roy
Well-Known Member
To my knowledge, there isn't a species that does that to the ventral. The feature seems to have appeared in Maudiae breeding out of Taiwan. How they got this feature is a mystery but one could assume that its to do with lab' modifications of the seed.
PaphMadMan
phytomanic
Roy
Well-Known Member
Underestimating selective / line breeding, I don't think so. Then why is this the only one that has been shown in the last 10 years when the mass produced paphs in Taiwan or Japan are yet to have it appear.
Line bred callosums have been around for decades and none have got anywhere near the ventral size of this. Line breeding can do great things but in the case of species, this usually improves the main features, which in P.callosum is the dorsal and maybe the petals. The enlarged ventral only started to appear with P.Pulsar, Hsinying Web, Ruby Leopard and the odd Mod Maude remakes plus crosses of all these. The 4n Maudiaes should produce this feature and don't.
PaphMadMan
phytomanic
There always has to be a first. I can't claim that this MUST be callosum, but your assertion that this can't possibly be callosum based on what is quite possibly a single gene difference in a highly selected line many generations from the wild is far from certain.
Roy
Well-Known Member
This a possibility but I would like to as sure of winning a lottery as I am that this is a hybrid and not a 1 in a million chance of a selected species line breeding producing this. As I said, I like the flower and would certainly like it in my collection.
P
P-chan
Guest
It's a beautiful bloom, regardless. 
C
Corbin
Guest
Thanks for the comments everybody.
Roy, one ofthe first questions I asked when I started growing orchids was, given all the differences that you see from different vendors for a particular spieces, how can I be sure which is truly a species orchid plant. The answer, from many on this forum, was you can not and for that matter you probably could not find a true species plant for most of the orchids outside of going out and collecting one from the wild.
And yes with the ventral is approaching that of the modern complex hybrids, which I don't like, but I bought form a very well known dealer and it was listed as a callosum. So do you trust nobody?
Roy, one ofthe first questions I asked when I started growing orchids was, given all the differences that you see from different vendors for a particular spieces, how can I be sure which is truly a species orchid plant. The answer, from many on this forum, was you can not and for that matter you probably could not find a true species plant for most of the orchids outside of going out and collecting one from the wild.
And yes with the ventral is approaching that of the modern complex hybrids, which I don't like, but I bought form a very well known dealer and it was listed as a callosum. So do you trust nobody?
Roy
Well-Known Member
Ed, #1 is that buying a true to name Paph species is difficult depending on the type of Paph it is. Normally this problem occurs in the sequential bloomers and can be seen in a multitude of examples. Sometimes a P. Maudiae can be mistaken for a callosum. The rest have very few similar species they can be mixed up with. IF a nursery buys in flasks of seedlings they can only go on what the label says until they flower. Mistakes happen either at the flask sellers place with incorrect labelling or recording of their pods, the lab' they were flasked at, or at the place of retail.
In most cases it is a total mistake and with bought in flasks/plants its not the retailer. I think most forum members have been victum of this problem.
#2, as mentioned, selective breeding can have a great influence on the improvement on the quality of species but to create the ventral as in your plant is just (IMO) not a option. Personally, I would be checking with the nursery form which it came.
