niveum hybrids (Deception II or Sugar Suite) used in breeding?

[terryros]

Paph niveum x delenatii = Deception II (registered 1942) and niveum x emersonii = Sugar Suite (1993) by picture are both nice white flowers with faint pink speckling. The flowers are larger than niveum itself.

However, in RHS, I can't find that either of these primary hybrids was ever subsequently used in breeding. Since all three species have the same chromosome number (2N = 26) it doesn't seem like the primaries should be sterile, but maybe they are.

I have seen pictures of each of these primary hybrids on the web, a few by forum members. Maybe someone knows if these primary hybrids are dead ends.

 

[GaryB]

From OrchidWiz, here are some nivium primary hybrids that have numerous offspring:

Psyche ( x bellatulum) - 79 Offspring
Greyi ( x godefroyae) - 76 Offspring
Olivia ( x tonsum) - 14 Offspring
Boltonii ( x insigne) - 11 Offspring
Doctor Jack ( x concolor) - 7 Offspring
Ron Williamson ( x primulinum) - 3 Offspring
Tautzianum ( x barbatum) - 3 offspring

Plus 12 more with 1 or 2 offspring

 

[NYEric]

I had a Psyche cross that stayed in bloom 4+ months! I miss that one.

 

[Pete]

sometime things just slip through the cracks... or for whatever reason dont show the potential somebodys looking for, maybe timing was wrong when they were gonna be used, maybe dead ends.. you never know the reason. I have a couple true sugar suites, i will try to set seed on one with another brachy sometime and see if its fertile.

 

[terryros]

I am specifically interested in the Deception II and Sugar Suite primaries for use with polyantha (multifloral Paphs) like Saint Swithin or Lady Isabel to make nice, large, predominantly white, multifloral hybrids with bigger flowers than what we get now when just using straight niveum.

 

[goldenrose]

sometime things just slip through the cracks.... I have a couple true sugar suites, i will try to set seed on one with another brachy sometime and see if its fertile.

That could be part of the problem with Sugar Suites & I thank those that do not have true Sugar Suites for not breeding them!
as for DeceptionII, it is strange that a cross registered in 1942 hadn't been used because it is pretty decent.
Good luck Pete!

 

[PaphMadMan]

Looking at niveum primaries with parviflorums (delenatii, emersonii, hangianum, micranthum, armeniacum, malipoense) only Wossner Vollmond (niveum x armeniacum) has been registered as a parent, just twice. Considering the popularity of these hybrids and how long Deception II has been around it does seem like these crosses just aren't very fertile.