Water temperature can have a huge impact. Cold water on hot leaf tissue would cause the type of damage in the photos. Ideally water that hits foliage should be close to the air temperature. Think about rain falling through the atmosphere before it hits a leaf. It hot weather the rain drop is probably a little cooler than the air temperature and in cold weather the temperature is probably a little warmer. (?)
K-Lite Trial Parameters
- Thread starter Ray
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Water temperature can have a huge impact. Cold water on hot leaf tissue would cause the type of damage in the photos. Ideally water that hits foliage should be close to the air temperature. Think about rain falling through the atmosphere before it hits a leaf. It hot weather the rain drop is probably a little cooler than the air temperature and in cold weather the temperature is probably a little warmer. (?)
K
keithrs
Guest
The lows many be more important.... Lows this week have been in the low 50 but before that we had lows in the high 30 low 40 for some time and may have stalled my plants.
K
keithrs
Guest
I can say my water yesterday was at 60.... It has a big impact on how well the RO system works too... I'm only getting about 1/2 output.
If I had a dosing pump I could use a ATO on my holding tank and warm the water, but as it stands I need to mix the fertilizer than use it all. I don't know how long it would take to warm a 20 gal holding tank. I imagine quite a while.
A killer for me is water sitting in the leaves at night.....
I got around the cold water slowing the RO system by building one with twice the capacity (and half the waster water, too), but pump from a heated RO storage tank. 3 watts or aquarium heater per gallon seems to do quite well.
I keep the GH at a 60° minimum, but the water is at least 70°.
I keep the GH at a 60° minimum, but the water is at least 70°.
Rick
Well-Known Member
This killer should go away as your plants develop with the low K diet.
Justin
Well-Known Member
Rick...I'll try to lay off the potassium carbonate, tap water definitely raises the pH. Will reduce feeding rate too.
Ray, i haven't measured the irrigation water temp but I know it gets quite chilly. I might have to do something about that.
There hasn't been any spread of the symptoms I had since yesterday--I'm certain it was cold air exposure plus cold water sitting on the leaves that lead to the cellular collapse on the leaves of these few plants.
A lot of great learning here, thanks everyone for the input.
Ray, i haven't measured the irrigation water temp but I know it gets quite chilly. I might have to do something about that.
There hasn't been any spread of the symptoms I had since yesterday--I'm certain it was cold air exposure plus cold water sitting on the leaves that lead to the cellular collapse on the leaves of these few plants.
A lot of great learning here, thanks everyone for the input.
Question for the gang - are you, and if so, how are you - keeping track of the trial?
So far, I am keeping a spreadsheet calendar, and just check off dates I feed and water. If nothing else, it helps keep me up-to-date with watering.
So far, I am keeping a spreadsheet calendar, and just check off dates I feed and water. If nothing else, it helps keep me up-to-date with watering.
I should get a calendar and keep track of watering/feeding
E
Eric Muehlbauer
Guest
I just use my memory....I'm lousy at taking notes. While I started Jan 1 with the new mix, I had been reducing my K by blending MSU with CaNO3, alternating occasionally with straight CaNO3 (I intend to still do that) for the previous 2 months. So far, so good....most plants are doing better than before, but I won't claim success just yet.
Rick
Well-Known Member
So far my records have been mostly posts on this forum.
But I also drug out the log book I started years ago, and started a new page.
Probably will be more like a running dialoge rather than notes in a spreadsheet.
But I also drug out the log book I started years ago, and started a new page.
Probably will be more like a running dialoge rather than notes in a spreadsheet.
I keep a calendar in my gh and always mark when I fertilize and when I flush. Seems to me you have to have that information in order to set a routine to follow and accurately observe results. I also have a 40 gal. water heater in my gh set at 75F. I suspect the variables of water temp. and gh temps. just might be very important
in this experiment. What say you all?
in this experiment. What say you all?
My guess is that water temperature is a matter of "don't let it be too cold when it hits the plants".
Cold water can cause a plant to stop growing when it might otherwise be doing so, but warmer water - short of "hot" to prevent damage, of course - will likely not be sufficient impetus to reverse that, or bring a plant out of dormancy.
Whatever the water temperature used for irrigation, it should pretty much come to a constant temperature across the board in a fairly short time, once applied.
Greenhouse temperature should certainly play a role, as plants' metabolic rates are directly connected to temperature (and light levels, too).
emydura
Well-Known Member
I haven't been using the fertiliser you guys are currently trialing so my results are not that relevant to your study. But I have been trialing my own low K fertilising regime. I have been combining the Trio CMB foliar fertiliser with the MAGAMP fertliser I had been using for the last year. I mostly use the TRIO-CMB as a foliar fertiliser although every fourth watering I also use it on the potting mix but at a much lower concentration.
Trio CMB foliar
http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/products/liquid-fertilisers/trio-cmb-foliar.html
MAGAMP
http://www.orchidtrays.com.au/view_product.php?id=229
The MAGAMP contains the following - N7, K5, P17.5, Mg7. The K is a bit higher than I like but a lot lower than previous and combined with the CMB a lot less than 5 overall. The P is a bit high but the CMB Foliar contains no P.
I have been using it since the start of December, so about 6 or 7 weeks now. The results are very encouraging. I'm currently seeing a lot of new growths particularly amongst the multi-florals. More than I would say is normal. They are all popping out new leads at the same time which seems to be way too much of a co-incidence to be unrelated to the new fertilisering regime. Something has triggered all these new growths and I don't know what else it could be. This was the main reason I wanted to change as I was finding it difficult to get a lot of my plants to multiply.
Plants seem to be growing better as well although I need more time to assess this. They certainly look healthier. I bought a tiny roth seedling 8 or 9 years ago that had never increased in size. It would be double the size now and looking very strong.
Anyway these results are a bit preliminary. I should have a better gauge in April when the growing season has ended.
Trio CMB foliar
http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/products/liquid-fertilisers/trio-cmb-foliar.html
MAGAMP
http://www.orchidtrays.com.au/view_product.php?id=229
The MAGAMP contains the following - N7, K5, P17.5, Mg7. The K is a bit higher than I like but a lot lower than previous and combined with the CMB a lot less than 5 overall. The P is a bit high but the CMB Foliar contains no P.
I have been using it since the start of December, so about 6 or 7 weeks now. The results are very encouraging. I'm currently seeing a lot of new growths particularly amongst the multi-florals. More than I would say is normal. They are all popping out new leads at the same time which seems to be way too much of a co-incidence to be unrelated to the new fertilisering regime. Something has triggered all these new growths and I don't know what else it could be. This was the main reason I wanted to change as I was finding it difficult to get a lot of my plants to multiply.
Plants seem to be growing better as well although I need more time to assess this. They certainly look healthier. I bought a tiny roth seedling 8 or 9 years ago that had never increased in size. It would be double the size now and looking very strong.
Anyway these results are a bit preliminary. I should have a better gauge in April when the growing season has ended.
That's a great report!
Can you please clarify how long you have been using this ratio/formula?
Were you using MAGAMP for 1 year and then 6 weeks ago began to add CMB?
Or were you using a completely different fertilizer before 6 weeks ago?
emydura
Well-Known Member
I have been using the MAGAMP for about a year now and just started using the CMB in the last 6 weeks. Prior to using CMB I was combining other fertilisers which had much higher K. Now I have just restricted it to those two. I noticed that when I started using MAGAMP that my plants improved quite a bit so I still wanted to include it. Plus being able to attach it straight to your hose is such a labor saving option. Adding the CMB as well as reducing the K levels have just improved it further. Because of CMB my plants are also getting much higher levels of Ca.
Currently I fertilise with each watering (about every 4 or 5 days). My fertilising cycle is as follows -
Schedule - ..... Potting mix ........ Foliage
Water 1 - ...... Magamp .............. CMB
Water 2 - ...... Magamp ........
Water 3 - ...... Magamp .............. CMB
Water 4 - ...... CMB ........
Every now and then I will skip the MAGAMP to flush out the pot.
I was told by Nutri-tech that plants can absorb nutients 12 to 15 times more efficiently through the leaves. I can also fertilise at much higher concentrations through the leaves (5x). So I assume more fertiliser is coming from the CMB than the Magamp.
The CMB is made up of the following
Calcium. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17%
Magnesium . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4.0%
Boron . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.25%
Total Nitrogen (as nitrate). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12.1%
Total Potassium (as organic K). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.45%
Sodium. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.1%
Kelp and Fulvic Acid . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19%
Rick
Well-Known Member
I thought that the kelp (with it's load of phyto hormones) might be the reason I was seeing all the new growths too. CMB also has kelp extract in it.
But SlipperKing has also been getting a boost in new growths and not using kelp at all.
So it will be interesting to see if the new growth phenomena happens just as frequently for the non-kelp users.
