K-lite fertilizer

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Based on Rick's observations that Potassium excess may inhibit orchid plant growth we should design a fertilizer recipe based on low or no potassium.

Let's try not to argue if it is a good idea or not but rather lay out what nutrients and sources a person could use if they want to use the low potassium growing method.

What fertilizer components would be ideal to mix together and in what ratio to make the ideal fertilizer solution?

We need:
N (nitrogen)
P (phosphorous)
K (potassium)
Ca (calcium)
Mg (magnesium)
and
Trace elements

So Rick what do you suggest?
 
Maybe something pushing the leaf litter values.

10_1 _1(NPK) 6Ca 2Mg Maybe silicates at 6 also.

The trace elements in MSU are probably just fine.

This also assumes that I'm using a bark, CHC, or moss based mix.

I might bump things up a bit if I was using inert media or mounting.
 
I wonder how much of a minimum Greencare has for a custom blend?

It's hard to get silicates blended in with concentrated fertilizers, as they must be quite alkaline to make the Si soluble, so can react with the acidic species and form insoluble precipitates.
 
I wonder how much of a minimum Greencare has for a custom blend?

It's hard to get silicates blended in with concentrated fertilizers, as they must be quite alkaline to make the Si soluble, so can react with the acidic species and form insoluble precipitates.

Also since Calcium nitrate is so hygroscopic its hard to get this put in dry and not have a big soupy mess a week after you open it up.

This is why I've been playing around with separate containers of MSU, Cal nitrate, Magsulfate.

Could probably make a more dilute liquid version all in one.
 
Also since Calcium nitrate is so hygroscopic its hard to get this put in dry and not have a big soupy mess a week after you open it up.

This is why I've been playing around with separate containers of MSU, Cal nitrate, Magsulfate.

Could probably make a more dilute liquid version all in one.

The more dilute version will not work, tried it already for the MSU... That's one of the big differences between the MSU suppliers too. Depending on the components, I am sure some oligos and maybe some of the macros become insoluble inside the power on storage. If you mix a perfectly soluble version of MSU ( do it in the lab in 4 parts...), it will precipitate, even at a x10 concentration only (100mL/L of final solution), after usually 12 hours to 2 days maximum.

The second problem, that most fertilizers manufacturers do not understand. Fe EDTA needs to be solubilized alone in warm water, so when it is blended and you just mix the blend with water, the EDTA has greater affinity for some others cations, and the iron is gone in part. Blending powders to make dry fertilizers is nice, but the end product, when stored on the shelves for a while, is absolutely not the intended product. Except if you make it specifically acid, use chelates for the Fe Mn Zn ( different chelates, you cannot use an all EDTA or all EDDHA for those three, would be too long to explain why, but that's chemistry) or do not include calcium and magnesium in the mix.

To include calcium nitrate in many fertilizers, they use thin paraffin coated pellets usually. Then it can be mixed, and will not react too quickly. But if you mix dry powders of any phosphate salts with calcium nitrate, and try to dissolve the result, you will see that a fair part became insoluble already in the dry state (especially as calcium nitrate is so hygroscopic)...

Back to decades ago, people would make their own fertilizers, it is not too difficult anyway.

To make a liquid version of MSU oligos, here we are.

You need to make 2 stock solutions ( the boron will form salts with the FeMnZnCn that are indeed insoluble, so it can never be done in a single stock)


***
Stock 1
for 1L of water
***
Add
FeNaEDTA (buy it like that, from www.phytotechlab as an example) 9g

Bring to a boil ( you will see that it is dissolved when the solution is not cloudy anymore. It must be a golden color completely transparent)

Add 2g citric acid
Then add:
MnSO4, H2O 2g
ZnSO4, 7H2O 0.8g
CuSO4, 5H2O 1g

Store in a dark bottle. It will be stable ( better to make fresh stocks every month or so, as it can become contaminated with bacterias)

***
Stock 2 to !L of water

Na2MoO4 200mg
H3BO3 400mg

You need as well to boil it, especially to dissolve the boric acid.

When you want to get the full MSU package oligos as described, use 1mL/L of each of those two stocks...


Note that there are many different things sold as Fe EDTA around the world. Some are the ferric sodium salts, some are a blend of iron sulfate and either free EDTA or a sodium salt of EDTA. You need to use citric acid in the first stock, (especially if you want to replace EDTA by EDDHA or DTPA), because otherwise, at a certain point, there will be free EDTA in the media. It can catch up the Mn Zn or Cu, which are temporarily solubilized as citrate complexes. You really do not want to have too much EDTA or EDDHA that is not bound, especially in hydroponics or semihydroponics.
 
We have an algae nutrient recipe at our lab that is like that Roth.

It's actually 5 separate solutions, but only the micro metals mixture would really need to be set up as you have.

The macros could be kept dry (and separate).

But obviously its more of a hassle to combine 5 separate parts than have everything in one scoop.
 
***H3BO3 400mg

You need as well to boil it, especially to dissolve the boric acid.


Don't know. I just spent the last year conducting toxicity tests with Boric acid and had no problems getting 400 mg/L into solution. It even dissolved no problem into water with hardness of 100 mg/L.

But just another detail to work with for the micros.
 
a few years back when we were still growing our own seedlings, we had an un-remembered brand of fertilizer that had two bags in one 25 lb bag, probably to keep the calcium nitrate from joining with other things. we stopped getting that type, but probably only because it cost more than something else that didn't work as well :(

it may be better to just have two different things to use periodically, rather than try to shoehorn too many things into one bag and end up with creative particles
 
All very interesting. How many people though have the means of obtaining and measuring accurate amounts of these compounds, or the bravery to start boiling fertilizers in there kitchens? Not me!:eek:
What about using your standard 2 part hydroponic fertilizer ( #1 calcium nitrate #2 everything else , reducing #2 by 3/4 leaving you with 1/4 the amount of K, and boosting back your P and trace with a regular pinch of bone meal and Mg sulphate to supply Mg and extra S?
 
All very interesting. How many people though have the means of obtaining and measuring accurate amounts of these compounds, or the bravery to start boiling fertilizers in there kitchens? Not me!:eek:
What about using your standard 2 part hydroponic fertilizer ( #1 calcium nitrate #2 everything else , reducing #2 by 3/4 leaving you with 1/4 the amount of K, and boosting back your P and trace with a regular pinch of bone meal and Mg sulphate to supply Mg and extra S?

That's sounds like what I'm presently doing with MSU fert, Calcium nitrate and Magsulfate.

At this point I haven't put the bone meal back into the system.

However I do have access to phosphoric acid.

At this point the improvements in growth haven't spurred me to start adding back in a lot of stuff. I'm still in cutting mode.
 
That's sounds like what I'm presently doing with MSU fert, Calcium nitrate and Magsulfate.

At this point I haven't put the bone meal back into the system.

However I do have access to phosphoric acid.

At this point the improvements in growth haven't spurred me to start adding back in a lot of stuff. I'm still in cutting mode.

They're probably getting everything they need as is.
 
OK, can you get hold of dried blood? The fine dusty kinds are quite soluble, lower in P but plenty of trace elements including Fe. and almost no K.

Bone and blood meal are very different in composition.

Bone meal is primarily calcium phosphate. Blood meal is very high in nitrogen and iron. It's not particularly known as a source of Ca or P.
 
I think it has a small amount of P in it?, although we can only really get ''blood and bone'', a mix of blood, flesh and bone steamed and dried.
If I want the bone I have to seive out the blood.
It is an excellent fertilizer I've been using on all sorts of things for years.
 
Maybe something pushing the leaf litter values.

10_1 _1(NPK) 6Ca 2Mg Maybe silicates at 6 also.

The trace elements in MSU are probably just fine.

This also assumes that I'm using a bark, CHC, or moss based mix.

I might bump things up a bit if I was using inert media or mounting.

OK how do we make a 448 gram (1 pound) bag of fertilizer that we can mix to different strengths.... like 1 tsp per gallon of water?

If we want to have the ratio you suggest but not using MSU as a part because we don't want the potassium.

10-1-1 NPK
6 Ca
2 mg
Trace elements (how much does MSU contain?)

Possible contents are?
Calcium Nitrate
Potassium Nitrate
?

Since Calcium Nitrate is difficult to handle what else can we use to source calcium to make a stable dry mix? There must be some form of stable water soluble calcium.
 
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