Grande / Wössner Supergrande / Leslie Garay

Discussion in 'Taxonomy' started by Rob Zuiderwijk, Aug 2, 2016.

Slippertalk Orchid Forum

Help Support Slippertalk Orchid Forum:

  1. Aug 2, 2016 #1

    Rob Zuiderwijk

    Rob Zuiderwijk

    Rob Zuiderwijk

    www.slipperiana.info

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Hi all,

    I know I wasn't really up to speed with all the new stuff and changes in the world of Phragmipediums the last couple of years. But I'm quickly catching up again. Yes, I know about the confusing situation regarding the name changes in the subgenus Phragmipedium. But while migrating, and in the process updating, the data from my old web site to the new I discovered another major change by the R.H.S. in the hybrid registration, I totally missed out on. A change that in my opinion creates a lot of confusion and potentially a lot of mislabelled plants.

    What am I talking about. While updating my database, I found out that in 2012 a new hybrid was registered as Phragmipedium Leslie Garay, made from Phrag. caudatum × Phrag. longifolium. But wait a minute isn't that grex for day and age known as Phrag. Grande?! What happened? So I checked the R.H.S. online database and saw to my surprise that they now say that Phrag. Grande = Phrag. longifolium × Phrag. humboldtii/popowii and that Phrag. Wössner Supergrande is now a synonym of Phrag. Grande?!?!?!?!
    All this made me wonder what happened with the grexes where Phrag. Grande was involved. So I did some checking and searching in the R.H.S. online database and found that several hybrids are no longer registered as having Phrag. Grande as one of its parents, but Phrag. Leslie Garay.

    Again, I totally missed out on this change. And I don't know if this was published/announced somewhere. (If it was can you please point me in the right direction so I can find it?)
    I know there has been some debate about the true parents of some Grande's around, but I didn't know that the decision was made to change the parentage of Phrag. Grande and as a consequence that of several other registered grexes.
    I wonder if this is well known among people that are involved in the hybridisation of Phragmipediums. I mean not only the parents of some hybrids have changed, but what about plants of the grexes involved that are in turn used for further hybridisation. If the names are not changed one can end up with mislabelled plants that add to the confusion about the ancestry of certain hybrids.

    Sorry, I needed to vent some confusion, amazement and surprise.

    All the best,

    Rob
     
  2. Aug 2, 2016 #2

    eteson

    eteson

    eteson

    Phragmad

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,401
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Bogotá (Colombia)
    thanks for this information Rob.
     
  3. Aug 3, 2016 #3

    SlipperFan

    SlipperFan

    SlipperFan

    Addicted

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    43,582
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    I would guess not many knew of this change. I hate all this confusion the name changes create!!! :mad:
     
  4. Aug 3, 2016 #4

    troy

    troy

    troy

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    6,110
    Likes Received:
    45
    Location:
    no hatred!!
    It gives the chucklehead plant taxonimists something to do, **** with us orchid growers.....
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2016
  5. Aug 3, 2016 #5

    abax

    abax

    abax

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2011
    Messages:
    10,180
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    Kentucky zone 6B
    Rob, join of Confusion Club. There are many of us in grave
    doubt as just what is what and many mislabeled plants.
     
  6. Aug 3, 2016 #6

    NYEric

    NYEric

    NYEric

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    47,328
    Likes Received:
    38
    Location:
    New York City Apartment
    Brown Phrags, who cares!? :evil:
    Just kidding Smitty! :p
     
  7. Aug 4, 2016 #7

    eteson

    eteson

    eteson

    Phragmad

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,401
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Bogotá (Colombia)
    Man just pull out all the labels from your plants if you are not concerned about names... :poke: taxonomy is a science and growing plants usually only a hobby.
    Those "chucklehead plant taxonomist" spend hours and hours studying plants trying to understand them and giving us keys to name our plants. Some of them, specially in the Orchid world even work for free... I am very concenred about taxonomy and plant nomenclature and I think that if the RHS has made this change is for a very good reason. We need to understand why before complain.
     
    loneroc likes this.
  8. Aug 4, 2016 #8

    Rob Zuiderwijk

    Rob Zuiderwijk

    Rob Zuiderwijk

    www.slipperiana.info

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    I don't think taxonomists have anything to do with the change I mentioned in this thread. Someone or something convinced the Orchid Registrar that one of the parents of a grex registered in 1881 is different from what they always said/thought it was. The evidence was obviously convincing enough that the Orchid Registrar changed the registration entry.
     
  9. Aug 4, 2016 #9

    Rob Zuiderwijk

    Rob Zuiderwijk

    Rob Zuiderwijk

    www.slipperiana.info

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Hey Eric,

    I know you don't like green and brown Phrags.
    You're forgiven. :wink:

    Rob
     

Share This Page



arrow_white