dalessandroi?

Discussion in 'Phragmipedium' started by eteson, Feb 19, 2014.

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  1. Feb 19, 2014 #1

    eteson

    eteson

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    I've been trying to get a divission of a wild collected true dalessandroi for years without success. Recently I got a few of plants labelled as dalessandroi and the first one is in flower. It is a first bloom and does not branch.
    My oppinion is that is not the typical dalessandroi... what do you think?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Feb 19, 2014 #2

    John M

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    I would guess that this is not pure d'al. But, you really need to provide more photos of the plant too.
     
  3. Feb 19, 2014 #3

    NYEric

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    Interesting form. Yay besseae!
     
  4. Feb 19, 2014 #4
    Could be Jersey(dalessandroi x besseae) I think that when they first started coming out dalessandroi was batched in with besseae and there are lots of Jersey's out there mislabeled. While I only have grown and have a few of each I have seen lots of them. Plant growth and leaves are different, and not all dalessandroi branch. I also have seen branching besseae as well.
     
  5. Feb 20, 2014 #5
    This is just my opinion from what I have put together talking to a bunch of people about this. The plant that you posted is not true dalessandroi. I bought a bunch of plants from ecuagernera that were supposed to be dalessandroi and they look exactly like your plant. They do not climb out of the pot. The leaves are not the same as real dalessandroi but close. Just not as big. I am pretty sure Tom went to see them in the habitat and a few other people I talked to, he could give you more info. I think it goes, where dalessandroi was found they cannot find more plants in the wild. There is another colony where the plants have close rihzomes, but they seem more like there has been natraul hybridizing in the area at some point. Those are now being called dalessandroi .
     
  6. Feb 20, 2014 #6

    eteson

    eteson

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    Thanks a lot Cheyenne,
    This makes sense.

    The question now is... where can I get a TRUE branching d'alessandroi?
     
  7. Feb 20, 2014 #7

    NYEric

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    Talk to Dennis Dalessandro? I think he's in Ecuador now and may have some :eek: In the USA, Tom Kalina had them (Fox Valley Orchids) but is sold out. Piping Rock has them available.
     
  8. Feb 21, 2014 #8

    SlipperFan

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    I don't know, but I like the color.
     
  9. Feb 21, 2014 #9

    Kyle

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    Where did you get it? Can you take a picture of the staminode and the leaves?

    Where have you looked? They're out there.

    Your plant looks interesting, the pouch has the right shape, but looks a bit off and ovary looks typical.

    Kyle
     
  10. Feb 21, 2014 #10

    cnycharles

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    The side petals look just like improved Besseae ones (not down swept) and the center doesn't look right


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. Feb 21, 2014 #11

    eteson

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    I got the plants from a local vendor in Ecuador (not EcuaG) and I suspect that the plants are wild collected.
    I received it in a very bad shape and where close to die but are recovering by now. The original size of the leaves was about 35 cm but they had to start again and now all of the plants are SG with leaf size of about 1/2 of the original size.
    Some more pictures:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Feb 22, 2014 #12

    Kyle

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    Was the vendor from Villcabamba? When I lived in Ecuador and worked for ecuagenera, I had the opportunity to examine dozens of dalessandrois and hundreds of beassae. Below are some pics.

    Dalessandroi is the middle one.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    So far your plant looks like the real thing.

    Kyle
     
  13. Feb 23, 2014 #13

    Hien

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    Hi Kyle, could you elaborate about the photo.
    Does that mean the Dale has smaller /shorter pouch & the staminode more 6 hexagon shape with a blunder bottom tip...the besseae pouch is bigger, more elongated & the staminode triangular pointed bottom...color and petals angles are not the determination ?
     
  14. Feb 23, 2014 #14

    Rick

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    In this picture/angle of the flower, the petals have that more traditional curved or hooked petals we are used to seeing for dalesand.

    And good growing for pulling them out!
     
  15. Feb 24, 2014 #15

    Kyle

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    The pouch on Dalessandroi is stubby. There are many populations of besseae, so you can't say that the pouch is always longer bad narrower. But there are few dal populations, so it's pouch shape is pretty consistent. The staminode of dalessandroi is missing the tooth.
     
  16. Feb 24, 2014 #16

    Hien

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    Thanks for the clarification Kyle,
    I now understand the short stubby pouch only narrow the search 1/2 way, then the lack of sharp pointed at the bottom of the staminode confirm the Dale .
    Which one is easier to grow (I mean keeping alive) the besseae or the Dale, temperature , water purity etc..
     
  17. Feb 26, 2014 #17

    Leo Schordje

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    Thanks Kyle for the photos, this clears up the differences for me.

    Dalessandroi is noted for its branching flower stems, but that trait is not unique to dalessandroi. An ordinary besseae will have a branching flower stem too, IF you grow it well, get multiple growths and bend the new growths down so all the new growths have roots. (you almost have to train them like a bonsai) - then you can get branching flower stems and 20+ flowers per stem.

    Dalessandroi flower stem usually won't branch until you have a multigrowth plant either, the two species are quite similar.

    All too often we see besseae where a 3 growth plant only has roots on the oldest growth and the rest hangs out in space. Need to stay on top of the repotting and get the new growth into media the moment new root buds start to form, then you can really see what besseae can do. Now I need to get downstairs to my light garden and do some repotting. (I'm guilty of the 'no roots' issue this year myself)

    Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it.
     
  18. Feb 26, 2014 #18

    eteson

    eteson

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    Thanks a lot Kyle and Leo. Now I am much more happy with my plants.
     
  19. Feb 27, 2014 #19

    MorandiWine

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    Going off of the picture of the pouch and the staminode, I would deduce that most of the "besseae" here on the west coast are hybrids of the two species. Right?
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Tyler


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  20. Mar 23, 2014 #20

    Tom-DE

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    Mine has been confirmed as P. dalessandroi and yours looks very much like the real thing to me also based on the photo. Kyle has explained the diff very well.
     

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