Breeding Minis

[chrismende]

I would love to have some more discussion re mini complex breeding trends. I know several folks are working on this, and I'm pretty new to thinking about it, but would really like to know where the sticking points (wide petals? not recurved dorsals?) are and how people are thinking of getting past these.
I'd also love the thread to include photos of successes - I've seen some scattered in other threads, but I think a specific thread about this would be great!

 

[Ernie]

Ross, Paphreek, is our on-site expert on this.

 

[goldenrose]

Koopowitz - 'Tropical Slipper Orchids' has a chapter pertaining to this, he did some work in this area when working at Paphanatics.

 

[Ross]

Koopowitz - 'Tropical Slipper Orchids' has a chapter pertaining to this, he did some work in this area when working at Paphanatics.

I highly recommend you get the book and read that chapter. Dr. Koopowitz also presented essentially the same information in an article for Orchid Digest a few years back.

In his article, Dr. Koopowitz comments that there are two ways to arrive at the destination of miniature complex hybrids: From the top down, starting with a standard complex and reducing its size, or from the bottom up, by selecting small species, crossing and recrossing them.

I have pursued both ways, but cannot say if one is better than the other, yet as I only started in 2004, and my first crosses have just bloomed in the last three years. Thanks for the nice comment, Ernie. Unfortunately, my first hand experience is still limited, and will only be cured by time. The nice thing is I'm already starting second generation hybrids, and have been fortunate to be able to build on other's hybridizing by acquiring quality plants from other sources. Half the fun of producing one's own crosses is shopping for stud plants!

 

[chrismende]

Thanks, everyone! I have read and re-re-reread Koopowitz. I appreciate your experience, Ross, since the photos I've recently seen were yours and it looks as if you are doing well. I have some flasklings from Woodstream that purport to be along these lines - using henryanum and charlesworthii along with some complex (Via Avila Beach) "blood." I think I'm what you call a "bottom up" believer, though clearly some genes from rounder and later crosses would need to be incorporated, probably, in order to get the complex rounding and wider petals. Is anyone using niveum to this end?

 

[labskaus]

I also liked this article by Frank Fordyce:

http://www.diabloviewos.org/Library/Articles by Frank Fordyce/fordyce 8aos.pdf

 

[Ross]

Thanks, everyone! I have read and re-re-reread Koopowitz. I appreciate your experience, Ross, since the photos I've recently seen were yours and it looks as if you are doing well. I have some flasklings from Woodstream that purport to be along these lines - using henryanum and charlesworthii along with some complex (Via Avila Beach) "blood." I think I'm what you call a "bottom up" believer, though clearly some genes from rounder and later crosses would need to be incorporated, probably, in order to get the complex rounding and wider petals. Is anyone using niveum to this end?

I have some mini x niveum crosses and also mini x godefroyae crosses. One has bloomed: Paph Little Bright Eyes = niveum x Mary Zdilla

As you can see, there are issues with shape, most notably some cuppiness and the pouch is pinched in at the top. These are the only two to bloom, so far.

 

[chrismende]

Ross: Good starts, though, in some aspects: the petals are fairly wide. Breeding a whole new "breed" takes many generations to smooth all the anomalies out - my experience from following the dog breeding endeavors in several breeds.
Labskaus: thanks soooo very much for that old article by Frank Fordyce! It's a gold mine of info and conjecture.