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nathalie
Guest
Beautiful !
emydura
Well-Known Member
Real nice. That is a particularly dark dorsal.
JeanLux
Well-Known Member
Very nice one !!!! Did you get it from a german vendor? Jean
SlipperKing
Madd Virologist
Very unsual clone you have. Dark overall with down swept petals.
Spaph
Well-Known Member
Nice and dark and two flowers!
J
Janna
Guest
John M
Orchid Addict
VERY nice! The colour is incredible! This plant should be selfed!
Rick
Well-Known Member
SlipperKing
Madd Virologist
Here we go again Rick!
In general terms mind you; the wilhelminiae "species" has horizontal, sometimes wildly held petals where as, praestans "species" is lighter in color, more vertical, 45 degrees or sharper downward held petals. My questions; Is this plant a naturally occurring variation of the two mention above? A man-made cross of the two above? A natural hybrid of the two mentioned above? Finally, a variant of the "species" wilhelminiae?
Q #1- All ONE variable species.
Q #2- Man's meddling where he doesn't belong (personal opinion)
Q #3- A Higher Power's joke on us!
Q #4- totally possible (or same as #3)
Who's got an opinion?
In general terms mind you; the wilhelminiae "species" has horizontal, sometimes wildly held petals where as, praestans "species" is lighter in color, more vertical, 45 degrees or sharper downward held petals. My questions; Is this plant a naturally occurring variation of the two mention above? A man-made cross of the two above? A natural hybrid of the two mentioned above? Finally, a variant of the "species" wilhelminiae?Q #1- All ONE variable species.
Q #2- Man's meddling where he doesn't belong (personal opinion)
Q #3- A Higher Power's joke on us!
Q #4- totally possible (or same as #3)
Who's got an opinion?
Rick
Well-Known Member
I'm more for one and three simultaneously!!
Look at all the variation in phili's and lowii's. Shoot, for that matter look at all the variation in petal stance in line bred roths!
According to Garray the only true wilhelms have no petal spiraling (regardless of petal stance) and when was the last time you saw one of those? Supposedly all the mini glanduliferum types with spiral petals are gardenerii (identified from a photo of a drawing from a plant found on an island off the coast of PNG in the 1800's). What are the odds that all the "gardeneri" out there were actually from Jobi instead of mainland PNG where the collectors in the 1970's thought they were all along?!?!
Look at all the variation in phili's and lowii's. Shoot, for that matter look at all the variation in petal stance in line bred roths!
According to Garray the only true wilhelms have no petal spiraling (regardless of petal stance) and when was the last time you saw one of those? Supposedly all the mini glanduliferum types with spiral petals are gardenerii (identified from a photo of a drawing from a plant found on an island off the coast of PNG in the 1800's). What are the odds that all the "gardeneri" out there were actually from Jobi instead of mainland PNG where the collectors in the 1970's thought they were all along?!?!
Stone
Well-Known Member
Here we go again Rick!
Q #1- All ONE variable species.
Q #2- Man's meddling where he doesn't belong (personal opinion)
Q #3- A Higher Power's joke on us!
Q #4- totally possible (or same as #3)
Who's got an opinion?
Firstly, a beautiful plant. Looks like laquered ebony!
I'm certainly no expert but according to Birk's 6 pics of praestans, none of them (from what I can see) have the hairs on the upper edge of the petals whereas wilhelminiae does. They both have spirals some downswept and some not so much. The staminode looks wider in the wilhelminiae. Both come from much the same area. So I would say different species (just) or maybe same species in transition to seperate species? AGAIN I'm only going on what I see in Birk's book!!
Totally agree with #2. (nothing sh*ts me more) so this particular plant could well be a cross between the two. But for now I would say wilhelminiae
Mike
SlipperKing
Madd Virologist
Yes, Rick and Mike. No disagreements here. I'll have to checkout the hair thing.
J
Janna
Guest
I have no parentage or source info.
If I search on google I can find some more picture of dark colored wilhelminae. So maybe it's a variable species??
If I search on google I can find some more picture of dark colored wilhelminae. So maybe it's a variable species??
SlipperKing
Madd Virologist
About the hair thing; In Braem's Genus Paph.. and in vol 1 and 2 of Cribb's Genus Paph both have hair in various degrees but the main petal difference is praestans has warts (and hairs on them) and wilhelminiae most of the time does not. In Cribb's 2nd ed. he has a really good insitu photo of wilhelminiae and I can not see any warts nor can I see hairs but I'll take their word on that. (pg 157). Cash's book (91), Birk's 1st ed, don't add anything new to the discussion. Waters and Waters book, "A Survey of The Slipper Orchids" (73) does mention the warts but make no mention of wilhelminiae. In the works of Esme' F Hennessy and Tessa A. Hedge, "The Slipper Orchids" (89) has a beautiful colored plate of glanduliferum (praestans) clearly showing the warts and describes in the text as, "with black-purple hairy warts on the undulate margins"
I almost forgot about Koopowitz's Tropical Slipper Orchids book, beautiful pictures of both, can't tell anything about hairs but wilhelminiae looks to have smooth undulating petals.
I almost forgot about Koopowitz's Tropical Slipper Orchids book, beautiful pictures of both, can't tell anything about hairs but wilhelminiae looks to have smooth undulating petals.
SlipperFan
Addicted
Wow is that ever dark!
Couldn't line breeding produce this?
Couldn't line breeding produce this?
my forecast: praestans x gardineri
an overview of the praestans complex you can find here:
http://www.orchidspng.com/contrib_garay2.html
an overview of the praestans complex you can find here:
http://www.orchidspng.com/contrib_garay2.html
