Will the real Cyp. subtropicum please stand up!

Discussion in 'Taxonomy' started by KyushuCalanthe, Aug 1, 2009.

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  1. Aug 20, 2009 #21

    kentuckiense

    kentuckiense

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    Ah, ok, found the answer in Dr. Perner's Cypripediums in China series. Apparently he saw an herbarium specimen of a plant in fruit from that area that could have been C. subtropicum.
     
  2. Aug 20, 2009 #22

    KyushuCalanthe

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    Based on the new collections (from what I hear there were multiple sites found), it is likely this species is spread over much of southern Yunnan, apparently from Vietnam to Tibet, and I'd guess it possibly even exists in Myanmar and India.

    BTW, I've heard that the pillaging is already happening this year to at least one site, but I have been given no specifics. Hopefully not all will perish.
     
  3. Aug 29, 2009 #23
    I am very excited to hear of the "New" plant, whether she truly be singchii or subtropicum! Perhaps Holger will be able to ship some seeds out eventually? Although I do worry that, given it's location and habitat, this plant will be akin to the other subtropical Cyps and Selenepedium in that it could be very hard to prop and grow!

    I'm glad to hear that Dr. Eccarius's book has made it out, though I'm still waiting for mine to come...
     
  4. Sep 14, 2009 #24

    VAAlbert

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    Hello:

    If anyone can get their hands on a leaf + pressed flower (for the record) for each of these different plants, I'd be happy to check out their DNA. Would be very exciting.

    Best wishes,

    Victor Albert.
     
  5. Sep 16, 2009 #25

    kentuckiense

    kentuckiense

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    I'd be very interested to see if C. subtropicum/singchii actually clades with C. wardii as has been proposed.
     
  6. Sep 16, 2009 #26

    fundulopanchax

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    Sadly, I have heard of plants offered at $1000 each (a reasonable price if legal ones were available - which they are certainly not, at least for shipment to the US - and have heard that a batch has reached Europe, but in unsalvagable condition.

    Ron
     
  7. Feb 11, 2010 #27

    KyushuCalanthe

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    C. subtropicum update

    A bit more information about the newly found colonies.

    First the bad news. Yes, plants are being collected and sold via eBAY, etc. The condition of the colonies is not well known at this point, but things aren't looking good for the plants that have been found.

    Now some good news. Seed pods were taken at one site and have been successfully flasked, although it's anyone's guess how difficult this plant will be in culture. The plants are still at the protocorm stage.

    A few fun facts about these guys. Clearly this is not your typical Cyp species:

    Habitat: True subtropical rain forest subject to a strong seasonal monsoon. The plants were found growing in deep shade and the soil was a mucky consistency. No frost at these sites. Interestingly, C. henryi, a plant occurring in much colder areas was found along side C. subtropicum. Paphiopedilum villosum was found growing epiphytically nearby along with a number of other epiphytic plants. This habitat is in strong contrast to the type site which was a alluvial forest of alder trees.

    Growth Cycle: Apparently this is the only known Cyp. that carries leaves over from one season to the next. The new growth will flower, set seed, and remain on the plant for at least one more growth cycle. The plant's habit is likely an ancestral type for the genus.

    Flower/Reproduction: The flower is supposed to have an odd odor and it is likely it is not pollinated by bees or the like, but possibly flies. Fruit set is high, suggesting that the flowers are at least partially self-fertilizing. Despite the plant having an ancestral growth habit, the flowers are highly specialized and differentiated, so this species shouldn't be thought of as an "original" Cyp.

    Naming: Still in dispute, but based on my source, the species C. subtropicum and C. singchii are synonymous. The confusion arose from the original collection back in the 80's. The flower's description was sketchy at best and the white spotting on the lip orifice was misinterpreted as mold growth on the herberium material. This lead to the erroneous description of the new taxa C. singchii. That saga will continue for a time I suspect. Interestingly it very likely this plant was first collected all the way back in the 1940's, but since it was not in flower it was mistaken to be a Epipactis species.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  8. Feb 11, 2010 #28

    smartie2000

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    Very interesting.
    It resembles Selenipedium in ways
    The blooms are quite striking actually. I do wonder what it can do in hybrids!
     
  9. Feb 11, 2010 #29

    NYEric

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    eBay!? :ninja:
     
  10. Feb 27, 2010 #30

    smartie2000

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  11. Feb 27, 2010 #31

    NYEric

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    Fascinating. Thanx for sharing.
     
  12. Apr 16, 2010 #32

    Berthold

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    End of last year somebody sold Cypripedium subtropicum on the european market via Ebay for the adequate price of 250 US$.
    What I heard and saw some of these plants are in flower now. They were Cypripedium henryi. Clients feel cheated.

    The Email-Address of the seller starts with yijiawang.
     
  13. Apr 16, 2010 #33
    well.... that was to be expected... I have also seen those ebay offered plants, and if we are talking about the same ones, they were to be sent from Asia (do not remember the country right now)... "cheap" plants "sent with papers...", but only if requested and there was also a note "normally we sent and the plants are not confiscated by customs" or something like that... in other words, dubious ebay sources... I could swear that if you check in Ebay for those vendors, they will not exist anymore...
     
  14. Apr 16, 2010 #34

    Berthold

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    I suppose its the person which posted here in this forum under the user name "yijiawang"
     
  15. Apr 16, 2010 #35

    KyushuCalanthe

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    Well, if the plants came without any leaves, then it would be anyone's guess what they might turn out to be. As noted C. henryi was found in the same area as the new plants, so there is a possibility of a mix-up, but that's hard to rationalize since C. subtropicum is evergreen...

    You play, you pay I guess. Is an adult C. subtropicum worth $250? $2500? More? Given their scarcity I'd say they are like living treasures that shouldn't be peddled over Ebay in the first place, legally or otherwise. Based on the plants found so far, this species is at the very least highly threatened or more likely critically endangered. Since no known cultivated plants exist yet, that means they are becoming more endangered with each one ripped out of the wild.

    So, sympathy is not the easiest thing for me to feel at the moment except for the plants and the places they were taken from.
     
  16. Apr 16, 2010 #36

    parvi_17

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    I am so glad you said that Tom. I totally agree with you.
     
  17. Apr 16, 2010 #37

    Berthold

    Berthold

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    Tom I agree. Holger Perner is testing propagation. He showed a glas with little protocorms. I hope he will succeed.
     
  18. Apr 16, 2010 #38
    right to the point... ;)
     
  19. Apr 17, 2010 #39

    Berthold

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    but in this case I regret shipping of the wrong species because I was standing by for seeds to sow.
     
  20. Apr 17, 2010 #40

    Dido

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    Would be nice if Mr. Perner would have succes so maybee one day we could get one for making Hybrids.
     

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