Sand anybody?

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I don't quite understand this. It seems to me that fine sand, like play sand or builders sand, would simply wash through the media. I've tried it on a very small scale, and it ends up on my greenhouse floor.

Must really put the water flow to those pots Dot.

Unpotting after a year or so I still have a noticeable amount of sand scattered in the media. Most is in the bottom 3rd of the pot. It seems to not go so far in the moss baskets.
 
....The stuff I'm getting from HD is called "play sand" for kids sand boxes.

I don't think for the relatively small amount to ammend the potting mix it makes any difference whether its angular or smooth, white or yellow..

I don't quite understand this. It seems to me that fine sand, like play sand or builders sand, would simply wash through the media. I've tried it on a very small scale, and it ends up on my greenhouse floor.

Must really put the water flow to those pots Dot.

Unpotting after a year or so I still have a noticeable amount of sand scattered in the media. Most is in the bottom 3rd of the pot. It seems to not go so far in the moss baskets.
My results are similar to Rick's. I do hand water. I have to question how beneficial it's been? I don't think I'd be going out of my way (or digging very deep in my pocket) to try it.
 
Must really put the water flow to those pots Dot.
Perhaps -- I use a thin garden hose and a soft nozzle, but plenty of water comes out.

Unpotting after a year or so I still have a noticeable amount of sand scattered in the media. Most is in the bottom 3rd of the pot. It seems to not go so far in the moss baskets.
Yes, I would think that sphagnum would catch it more than bark or CHC.
 
okay. i'm almost ready to do it....but how much do i put in a 2.25" and a 4" pot?
is it okay to put a big tablespoon of crushed oyster in when i put in ____ sand?
i typically soak my plants so i wonder how it will get distributed through the mix
 
okay. i'm almost ready to do it....but how much do i put in a 2.25" and a 4" pot?
is it okay to put a big tablespoon of crushed oyster in when i put in ____ sand?
i typically soak my plants so i wonder how it will get distributed through the mix

Do you normally use oyster shell? If you do, I don't see any reason why you can't use both in combination of both.

I've stopped using oyster shell and started using the Caribsea "cichlid sand" partially due to lack of availability, and partially because its finer grained, cleaner, and easier to use. I can mix a small amount in with the regular sand, and it moves around pretty evenly. But if your irrigation water has a high pH and plenty of calcium already, it may not be necessary to add pH buffering sand. Just use less fertilizer or find a low potassium fertilizer.

Sand is pretty inert so you can use lots of it relative to the usual amount of oyster shell you use. I probably end up applying about a heaping tsp of sand per 2" pot and a good tblsp per 4" pot or basket.

If the mix is relatively dry at the time of application, you can tap on the sides of the pot and it will work its way into the mix. You can also water it in. For sphagnum baskets you pretty much have to wash it in.
 
great, thanks!
{guess what i'm doing when i get home from work....}
Rick, i do normally use oyster shell with all but parishii since it's an epiphyte.
oyster shell if highly accessible here. if i wanted, i could grab my own shells and process them myself...oh... those are clam shells. hmmm.
a long time ago i got a couple small deli containers of shell, one with powder and one coarse. been using the coarse but may try the other too
 
great, thanks!
{guess what i'm doing when i get home from work....}
Rick, i do normally use oyster shell with all but parishii since it's an epiphyte.
oyster shell if highly accessible here. if i wanted, i could grab my own shells and process them myself...oh... those are clam shells. hmmm.
a long time ago i got a couple small deli containers of shell, one with powder and one coarse. been using the coarse but may try the other too

Shells is shells Likespaphs.

I've been adding some calcium sand to parrishii too ( to balance the potassium in the fertilizer). I think lowii (which can be found both epiphytically and lithophytically) may be a good test case. My best growth for lowii was always with lots of limestone (or oyster shell) in the mix. Trying to grow it more "epiphytically" usually resulted in good results for a season or two, and then chronic withering disappearing plant over the next few years until gone. I'm on my third batch of lowii seedlings (which I assumed would be super easy).

They grew up to about 3- 4" LS and would stop growing, and then start dropping one by one over the next few years to what seemed like various rot like conditions. Repotting would temporarily invigorate. This third most recent batch (which are from the same parent selfing as the first lost batch) is already exceeding this result. I already moved a couple of the fastest into single 4" baskets with moss, limestone and sand, and they are already pushing 6" leafspan.
 
thanks

last question(s):
do i need to wash the sand first? if so, any recommendations how? just put some in a bucket, fill it with water, drain while reserving the sand and repeat?
 
I just re-read this whole thread. The term 'sand' is like quicksand, when trying to sort through definitions. Each industry that uses sand puts different labels on the sands sold for their industry. Some have very specific uses. The consumer market makes very little distinction, what ever is cheap gets bagged and a label slapped on. Sometimes the label means something, often it does not.

My approach is to not over-think this. It's not rocket science. (though I know we have a scientists few here)

Think about your purpose.

For orchids in a mixed collection, (emphasis on mixed) you simply want a fine particulate for root hairs and mycorrhizae (if present) to grab on to and increase absorbtion area. Play sand will work fine. Any of the many crushed or mined silica products will work. River sand is ok except for extreemly sensitive plants like some carnivourous plant. Sand is a minor component, no need to worry about particle structure and air voids. 90% of us don't need to read further, it is that simple.

If you are mostly raising terrestrials, like Paphs, and most of your species are calciphiles, crushed limestone, such as is sometimes sold, also crushed granite as in paver's sand also is just fine. Oystershell and crushed dolomite are all very usable. Any combination is fine, I add both oyster shell and play sand to the mix for my calciphiles, like stonei and bellatulum. In a way, this is even simpler than above.

If you are raising sensitive plants, like carnivorous plants & Cypripediums, only the most inert of media can be used. Here you need to look at what is being sold as play sand. If it has a rusty color to it, it may have more iron and other ingredients than you may want. You really need something that is pretty much pure silica quartz. Some play sands are good, sand sold for the outdoor cigarrette ashtrays tends to be very pure white, and cheap, this is pure silica. Those would work fine as a minor component.

But for a carnivorous plant soil or a sand based soil for cypripediums, where the sand is a major component (over 20% of the mix) you need some structure and air voids. Here the sharp sands available at a builders supply house would be helpful. Same place or a machine supply house like Grainger, would sell silica for sand blasting. Here the particle sizes are graded, and you can get very specific size particle. These supply houses are not orientated to the consumer. You will only see them listed under wholesale or manufacturing supply. Designing soils is a really complex topic, wander over to bonsai info on the net and look at the information about inert or inorganic bonsai soils. Be prepared for hundreds of pages on the topic, but much of it is good.

Rose, just south of you on Hwy 12, is McCann Ready Mix and Concrete Supply. You can get sharp builders sand there, also various pure graded silica quartz. (I've used the Wedron 10-40 by Unimin Corp, because I used to get it for free) I think McCann is still in business? If not try the Meyers Material yard at Hwy 41 & Hwy 137 by Great Lakes Naval Base. I think there are Ozinga and maybe a Prairie Ready Mix yard on Hwy 12 also. You could go west on 173 to the Theilen's Quarry west of Richmond, head to the office, don't use the truck entrance. If they are busy, they might not want to make time for you. My name won't help your there.

All these places are commercial / industrial. They usually are open week days only. Avoid the early 6 am to 9 am rush. Get there before 4 pm or they will be closed. Bring a check book, credit card, or cash, with the ability to make some change yourself. They mostly deal with companies on accounts, so they may be awkward in the way they handle cash customers.

When searching for industrial sands check you local listings for

Ready-Mix & Concrete Supply, also Concrete Block & Pre-Cast Supply
Brick, Block & Stone Supply (we have an actual brick yard the next town over from me)
Machine and Tool Supply (for sand blasting aggregates only)
Building Supply (Lumber yards often do not carry sands, but sometimes they do)
Landscape operations, not so much nurseries, but Landscape outfits that do excavation, you want to see earth movers, more than trees in burlap.

Feed Stores, Poultry Supply - I frequently get my crushed granite for my bonsai soils at the local feed store. Ask for poultry grit. I prefer the Turkey Grit, because the granite is the same size as seedling bark, 1/4 to 1/2 inch. Grower grit is finer, 1/16 to 1/4 and Starter grit is very fine, less than 1/8th for chicks. Pigeon grit is crushed granite with both oystershell and some anise in it to attract the pigeons to peck, around 1/8 to 1/4 inch.

Look for the word Supply, there are Ready-mix plants that do not sell anything other than ready-mix on the truck.

Hope these ideas help.
Leo
 
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IFeed Stores, Poultry Supply - I frequently get my crushed granite for my bonsai soils at the local feed store. Ask for poultry grit. I prefer the Turkey Grit, because the granite is the same size as seedling bark, 1/4 to 1/2 inch. Grower grit is finer, 1/16 to 1/4 and Starter grit is very fine, less than 1/8th for chicks. Pigeon grit is crushed granite with both oystershell and some anise in it to attract the pigeons to peck, around 1/8 to 1/4 inch.

Leo

I always love when the country folk post things like this! :poke:
 
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