Prime Agra New vs. Old

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bwester

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From my previous post:
That new crap made me take every plant i own that it didnt kill out of s/h. It is aweful, pathetic for an s/h media. I still hold to my belief that ray made the switch purely for financial gain and I dont believe for a second that he worked with the manufacturer to "improve" it.
Screw ray and his expensive crappy rocks!!!
sorry for my rant..... the loss of so many plants due to that stuff makes me real emotional.
 

gonewild

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OK Blake it is time for therapy. Get your emotions out. :poke:

What were your observations with the new PA? How did it kill so many plants? What were the symptoms?

Please let's all offer ideas and comments to evaluate this product.
 

bwester

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Well, I had EXTREME salt build-ups on the new only. Plus every plant in the new started to have severely rotted roots. It wicked entirely too much and seemed to drown the plants. I experienced none of this with the old stuff.
 

Candace

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The new looks very different from the old, per Lance's prior post. I was actually surprised it looked so different. Like aliflor but from what Blake says, wicks much more than aliflor does. I haven't had to order any in quite some time, so I can't comment on the new stuff. I wonder if the old stuff is even made anymore, and maybe those who really want it back should tell Ray about their experiences.
 
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Inverness

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I have paphs, phrags, phals, catts, and others in both the old and new mix. My plants are all under HID from compot to mature size (approximately 500 plants). All are cared for on the same routine. Not having any problems. Still seeing excellent root and shoot growth.

Ken B.
 

gonewild

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bwester said:
Well, I had EXTREME salt build-ups on the new only. Plus every plant in the new started to have severely rotted roots. It wicked entirely too much and seemed to drown the plants. I experienced none of this with the old stuff.
I think the extra wicking is one of the "improvements" Ray claims for the new PA. If there is good air space within the media it does not seem like the extra moisture should cause a problem with the roots.

If your pots have a reservoir did you notice if the water level dropped faster than with the old PA?

Did you do any kind of test to determine if there was actually more salt build up? Or did you go by only the visible appearance?

How long were the plants that died in the new PA?
Did you also pot up other plants at the same time with the old PA?

Did all the plants you potted with the new PA die?

Did you use coarse or fine PA?

What size pots did you have the problem with?

Where the plants that died new acquisitions or repotted plants you had had for some time?

Where the dead plants transfered from organic media into the new PA?

What is your fertilizer regime?
 

gonewild

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Ron-NY said:
The new stuff looks much like hydroton but darker in color. I haven't used either but have used hydroton without a problem.
Does hydroton have some irregular rough shaped pebbles or is it uniformly spherical?
 

Ron-NY

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most likely. Hydroton is carried by hydroponic stores in my area so I started with that years ago and haven't had any complaints so I continue with it.
 
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IdahoOrchid

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I have a couple of plants coming in a couple of weeks that are currently in s/h. I am not certain what media they are in, I will have to ask. I am anxious to see what the answers are to the questions asked.
 

Candace

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The new stuff does look more like hydroton but darker(like Ron said). The thing is, is that what I like least about hydroton is the uniform, ball shape. The hydroton is forever rolling out of the pots if I get a bit over exuberant in my watering. If I happen to tip a pot over, if the plant is fairly new and not rooted well yet, the stuff goes everywhere. I liked how the old primeagra stayed put. I probably use more hydroton than primeagra, so I've learned to live with it. It's amazing what you put up with when it's available locally and cheaper:wink:

I will most likely try the new media eventually, but I'll experiment like I do with any new media. On only a few healthy plants(that aren't treasured) and see what happens.
 

bwester

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If your pots have a reservoir did you notice if the water level dropped faster than with the old PA?
--Yes!!! the new ones dried up more than twice as fast!!!
Did you do any kind of test to determine if there was actually more salt build up? Or did you go by only the visible appearance?
--A test was not needed, there was a thick caking of crystals on the top of the media.
How long were the plants that died in the new PA?
--The paphs died fast, the phrags held on for a month or so
Did you also pot up other plants at the same time with the old PA?
--Yes, I am a scientist. I did it very analytical. the same thing to each type. including some divisions of the same plant, one in the old and one in the new.
Did all the plants you potted with the new PA die?
--All but one, a phrag.
Did you use coarse or fine PA?
--the standard one ray ships
What size pots did you have the problem with?
--all sizes that ray sells
Where the plants that died new acquisitions or repotted plants you had had for some time?
--both
Where the dead plants transfered from organic media into the new PA?
--yes
What is your fertilizer regime?
--MSU 125ppm N
 

gonewild

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bwester said:
If your pots have a reservoir did you notice if the water level dropped faster than with the old PA?
--Yes!!! the new ones dried up more than twice as fast!!!
So the new PA must wick water twice as fast (much) as the old PA. That would mean it also may hold twice as much water.

In our culture we don't rely on the water reservoir to supply all the water since we water lightly a couple times per day, so we don't notice the water level drop. However I would agree with you that the new PA evaporates water faster because it does take longer for us to water the new PA to overflow level.

It may be that the new PA tends to have an actual film of water on the pebble surface where as the old PA was simply moist.

A film of water constantly on the root could possible cause the old roots on freshly converted plants to rot?

Did you do any kind of test to determine if there was actually more salt build up? Or did you go by only the visible appearance?
--A test was not needed, there was a thick caking of crystals on the top of the media.
I do notice more white crystals on the new PA but it appears to me that the are actually about the same as the old PA but show up better on the black pebbles. It stands to reason if the new PA evaporates water twice as fast it would accumulate twice as much salt crystals. Here again we don't find this a problem because we water frequently.

On this point I would disagree with you and suggest you do need a scientific measurement of the salts to determine if that is what caused the problem. Even to the extent to know if the crystals caking on the surface are toxic to the roots.

How long were the plants that died in the new PA?
--The paphs died fast, the phrags held on for a month or so
Do you mean the plants went from healthy to dead in 30 days?
How quickly did the first plants die? And by dead do you mean "dead"?

Did you also pot up other plants at the same time with the old PA?
--Yes, I am a scientist. I did it very analytical. the same thing to each type. including some divisions of the same plant, one in the old and one in the new

Did all the plants you potted with the new PA die?
--All but one, a phrag.
Was your experiment limited to paphs and phrags or did other genera die as well?

Did you use coarse or fine PA?
--the standard one ray ships
What size pots did you have the problem with?
--all sizes that ray sells
Did plants die faster or slower between large and small pots?

Where the plants that died new acquisitions or repotted plants you had had for some time?
--both
How many plants were affected?

Where the dead plants transfered from organic media into the new PA?
--yes
Did you move any established plants from the old PA to the new PA?

What is your fertilizer regime?
--MSU 125ppm N
Do you use RO water?


A few more questions....

How did you treat the new PA before you used it?
Did you soak it or in any way wash it?

How often did you water the plants in the new PA?

Did you get any feedback from Ray about your problem?
 
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