Phragmipedium Saint Ouen flavum ‘Franceville’

[Erythrone]

Not the best picture of one of my favorite Phrags, which is supposed to be a 3 N (some of you don't believe there could 3 N plants). The plant is in a gazebo for its summer "vacation", that's why you see a strange background (window screen)! The light was quite low for shooting and I didn't use tripod so there is a blurring effect. But I wanted to share it anyway... Grown in rockwool with LECA.

Phragmipedium St-Ouen web by Erythrone, sur Flickr

 

[mrhappyrotter]

Wow, that yellow is more intense than any P. armeniacum I've ever seen. That should be in a breeding program for sure!

 

[Erythrone]

Unforatunately it is supposed to be a triploid...

 

[Achamore]

Stunning! Where did you find that..?

 

[Erythrone]

Stunning! Where did you find that..?

DrOrchids breeding (OL)

 

[Linus_Cello]

Unforatunately it is supposed to be a triploid...

I think it's still possible to breed; probably very low fertility rate, but still possible.

 

[trdyl]

Wow! Such intense color.

 

[Marco]

That is a lovely yellow.

 

[John M]

OH MY GOD!!! Gimme, Gimme, Gimme! :smitten:

Wow, I love that. It is so beautiful. :drool:

...And, congratulations to Robert for creating such a stunning flower! Well done!

 

[17andgrowing]

That's lovely. Congrats on a great looking bloom.

 

[Achamore]

DrOrchids breeding (OL)

Sorry, can you give a website? All I get is a flower arranging site in Palm Springs coming up for DrOrchids.

 

[Denver]

Sorry, can you give a website? All I get is a flower arranging site in Palm Springs coming up for DrOrchids.

I think she got it from Orchids Limited as Drorchid is a member here who works for Orchids Limited.

 

[NYEric]

Yay besseae hybrids! It is easy to make 3N plants; 4N x 2N, the problem is in breeding with the resultant 3N plants. 2N x 3N =2.5N - no good, and 3N x 4N = 3.5N - no good.

 

[Denver]

Yay besseae hybrids! It is easy to make 3N plants; 4N x 2N, the problem is in breeding with the resultant 3N plants. 2N x 3N =2.5N - no good, and 3N x 4N = 3.5N - no good.

This may be an idiotic statement as I know very little about genetics and unfortunately I think it is a little more complicated, but if that is the case, wouldn't a 3N x 3N have good fertility?

 

[Paphluvr]

Wow, one awesome looking flower! Love the color and the form.

 

[Linus_Cello]

Yay besseae hybrids! It is easy to make 3N plants; 4N x 2N, the problem is in breeding with the resultant 3N plants. 2N x 3N =2.5N - no good, and 3N x 4N = 3.5N - no good.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that 2N x 3N = 2.5N(99%) and 2N(1%), and

4N x 3N = 3.5N(99%) and 4N(1%).

Or something like that (may be less than 1% 2N/4N)

 

[Erythrone]

I think she got it from Orchids Limited as Drorchid is a member here who works for Orchids Limited.

Right

 

[theorchidzone]

Triploids are usually sterile or very low fertility because in order to produce pollen or egg, Meiosis is required in both mother and father to produce germ cells.

In the first division in a diploid where there are two copies of each chromosome, normally chromosomes pair and then segregate. In a triploid, the pairing involves the three chromosomes of each type and the orderly segregation is a big mess. You can't split three into two. [I am sure there is some terrible analogy here]

Tetraploids are usually OK because each chromosome can find a partner.
Interestingly, with plants that are pentaploid, sometimes fertility is restored because there are so many copies of each chromosome that pollen and egg get about the right amount.

I am sure a search on the web for why triploids are sterile would yield explanations at various levels.

JC

 

[Erythrone]

Triploids are usually sterile or very low fertility because in order to produce pollen or egg, Meiosis is required in both mother and father to produce germ cells.

In the first division in a diploid where there are two copies of each chromosome, normally chromosomes pair and then segregate. In a triploid, the pairing involves the three chromosomes of each type and the orderly segregation is a big mess. You can't split three into two. [I am sure there is some terrible analogy here]

Tetraploids are usually OK because each chromosome can find a partner.
Interestingly, with plants that are pentaploid, sometimes fertility is restored because there are so many copies of each chromosome that pollen and egg get about the right amount.

I am sure a search on the web for why triploids are sterile would yield explanations at various levels.

JC

Thanks for the explanations!

 

[Erythrone]

Sorry, can you give a website? All I get is a flower arranging site in Palm Springs coming up for DrOrchids.

Here is a link. As you can see the color is quite variable.

https://www.orchidweb.com/products/phrag-saint-ouen-flava-color-3n~1240.html

This hybrid is not available anymore but, of course, you can ask Orchids Lted if they can sell you a divison. Or maybe they remade the cross?

Drorchid showed a few other plants of this cross on Slippertalk:

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1716&highlight=ouen

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=958&highlight=ouen