Paphiopedilum callosum hybrid?

[Lint]

Hello,

in the midst of various "Maudiae but not really Maudiae" hybrids in a local garden center, I saw four different looking plants that seemed to be from the same crossing.

I couldn't resist and bought a pot with two plants in it. So what could this be? I'm assuming it's callosum x something. Maybe even a primary hybrid? The four plants all had very similar flowers. If it was a complex cross, there would have been more variability in the flowers, right?
I am new to Paph-growing and orchid genetics, so be gentle. ;-)

Some pictures (click to enlarge):

Plant 1


Plant 2


Both


The other two plants looked pretty much the same, only with slightly more spots on the petals.
I forgot to take a picture of the leaves, but they look like standard bright green Maudiae leaves, only with less contrast between the lighter and darker areas.

 

[tim]

appletonianum x urbanianum would be a good place to start

 

[Erythrone]

very nice!

 

[SlipperFan]

They do look like they are probably sibs, but you'll probably never know the name for sure -- unless you can somehow contact the grower.

 

[paphioboy]

Very nice... First one looks kinda like dayanum to me.. Callo-Day maybe?

 

[Ross]

appletonianum x urbanianum would be a good place to start

I agree. The pouch shape and purple colored petal tips are characteristic of the appletonianum/hainanense/etc. complex. Here's a link to a Paph hainanense: http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18096&highlight=hainanense

 

[W. Beetus]

I agree. The pouch shape and purple colored petal tips are characteristic of the appletonianum/hainanense/etc. complex. Here's a link to a Paph hainanense: http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18096&highlight=hainanense

Yep. That's the one parent that I can definitely see in this plant.

 

[Lint]

How did I miss all these replies? I thought I had subscribed to the thread.
Thank you all for replying!

Paph. hainanense seems to fit as a possible ancestor... especially the sepal on the second plant is bent in just the same way.

As for contacting the grower, I am trying.
I asked the garden center if they could tell me the name of the nursery but they are not allowed to tell me.
However, I have a hunch where they got them and already sent an eMail.

Unfortunately, these big nurseries usually don't have the time to speak to lowly end-consumers so I am not very optimistic.

This is such a shame because I often find very interesting looking hybrids in the middle of some Maudiaes. I even bought two Paph. sukhakulii from a "Maudiae" assortment.

Here is another one that will probably stay nameless forever:

(click to enlarge)




I mostly bought it for the leaves.

 

[paphioboy]

Very interesting. Looks like it has venustum in it... Maybe venustum x suk?

 

[Lint]

I agree on the venustum part... the leaves and the colour and pattern on the pouch look very much like venustum.
Maybe sukhakulii is in there, too, but it can't be just venustum x sukhakulii. The petals are so big and floppy and widen towards the end. This must come from some other species, right?

 

[tim]

maybe this grower is hella interested in appletonianum primaries, because to me this looks about how venustum x appletonianum would look...

 

[Lint]

I looked at lots of appletonianum primaries before because I was thinking both of my plants could be one at first. But they don't really fit.
I just found this page, too, which even has Paph. Memoria Heinie Christ (appletonianum x venustum):

http://www.passiflora.ru/forum/showthread.php?p=125775

It looks more similar to my first plant than the second.

For the second plant, I was wondering if it could be a cross with sangii maybe, because of the uneven pouch shape and the floppy petals.

Here is a picture of Callo-Day BTW, it looks similar to my first plant but I don't think it's really it:

http://www.passiflora.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=6093

 

[Eric Muehlbauer]

Some places do reply. Many years ago I bought a vini fairreanum cross, no name, just a number. I was able to figure out that it was an Orchid Zone cross, so I emailed them. I quickly got a reply from Terry Root telling me exactly what the cross was.

 

[NYEric]

I dont know about paph species but, welcome to the forum!

 

[SlipperFan]

I dont know about paph species but, welcome to the forum!

Good catch, Eric! Yes, welcome to the forum, Lint!

 

[PaphMadMan]

The leaves on that second one look very venustum influenced as well as the flower, but I still find myself wondering about sangii instead. I really wouldn't expect to see that kind of cross as NOIDs in a garden center though.

 

[Lint]

Thank you all for welcoming me.

I am still thinking about those hybrids. At first I dismissed Paphiopedilum x siamense (appletonianum x callosum) as a possibility for the first hybrid. Because I had seen one plant in flower and the flowers seemed smaller and more delicate than on my plant. But now I have seen a few more pictures of x siamense and am not so sure anymore.

At least appletonianum x callosum seems like a plausible cross since they are readily available plants and the result could look like this.
Although I will never know if it's not ((appletonianum x callosum) x callosum) x self or whatever. *sigh*

 

[smartie2000]

....these are some neat finds

 

[Lint]

I'm getting more and more convinced that it might be siamense / appletonianum x callosum.

Looking for pictures of siamense in the forum, I found these that look very similar:

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14416
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16027
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11560