Paph armeniacum

[dan_t]

Hi everyone

I've got a favour to ask! This is my first post on this forum, as I've just been reading up until now. This is the first flowering for this plant, and I would very much like some of you nice experienced people to tell me any plus points about it's form and colour, as I was definitely hoping for more from this one!
As far as I'm concerned, the petals are far too reflexed, and there is still green on the tip of the dorsal sepal. Is there any characteristics it has which would rescue it from being sold?
I was hoping to set up some of my own crosses, but think that it should really be with another clone...

However, I still love it - I'm really into this section of the alliance. Hopefully my micranthum will be out in the next few weeks!

Dan

 

[JeanLux]

Welcome from Luxembourg Dan! for armeniacum, you do better then I do! I have (had) 4 of them not one yet bloomed ! So even reflexed petals are better than none ! Jean

 

[SlipperKing]

Your plant will probably bloom out with flatter or a least different shaped petals the next time. I would not give up so quickly. From the sideview PIC I can tell that the flower developed in a "downward" directions, meaning it was facing the ground. Petals tend to reflex back more when this happens. If you staked the flower stem too early in development stages you can add to this problem. I normally allow flowers to fully open before any staking. They will find the stance on their own. I love the green and the pouch shape

 

[parvi_17]

Welcome to the forum Dan! It is impressive that you've bloomed an armeniacum as these are fairly difficult to flower (and I'm still waiting for mine!). Rest assured that first blooms are often not that great - your flower will improve with subsequent bloomings. I think this one has potential - nice big pouch, nice coloring (in my opinion) and it is very likely that the petals will flatten the next time it blooms. I also agree with Rick about the staking. Great taste in Paphs, by the way!

 

[Yoyo_Jo]

Welcome Dan! It is still a lovely bloom - gorgeous color.

SlipperKing - thanks for your post regarding staking - good to know.

 

[Leo Schordje]

Glad you have joined us, Dan. I have often been truely amazed at changes in form, as a plant picks up vigor from blooming on a one growth plant to blooming on a multiple growth plant. I would not dump your armeniacum just yet for 2 reasons.

1.) it bloomed for you. This sounds trivial, but for most people Paph armeniacum is often a reluctant bloomer. Your plant bloomed, its genetics allow it to grow and bloom in your conditions. Keep it a while and see if it continues this behavior. Ease of bloom induction is an inheritable trait. So your plant has this going for it if it continues to grow and bloom for you.

2.) Form can change drastically between one blooming and the next. A vigorous plant can put out nice round flowers, the same plant as a one growth division, or seedling, and stressed, might put out narrow floppy or mis-shaped flowers. Re-Evalute as the plant matures to a multigrowth specimen.

the bad news
3.) Color is not as dramatically affected by culture, and that green tips is a common pattern in armeniacum - that is likely to be what it is.

SO give the plant at least one more chance. AND you are correct to not use it to make hybrids just yet. In my opinion it is better to not make a cross if the parents are not up to standards for attractive flowers. Crossing with mediocre parents and hoping for the best wastes the breeders time and growing space, and the time of anyone else who buys the seedlings. Even with the best of parents, you will get a percentage of mediocre seedlings, with mediocre parents you guarrantee all but maybe a chance one or two will be mediocre.

So good judgement all the way round.

 

[Candace]

Crossing with mediocre parents and hoping for the best wastes the breeders time and growing space, and the time of anyone else who buys the seedlings. Even with the best of parents, you will get a percentage of mediocre seedlings, with mediocre parents you guarrantee all but maybe a chance one or two will be mediocre.

I think any breeders that are dabbling right now or folks that are thinking about hybridizing should follow this advice!

 

[NYEric]

Welcome from NYC!
There are better clones to use for breeding if you can get them. I must also add that just getting an armeniacum to bloom is a major accomplishment. [I havent done it yet in many years and attempts! ]

 

[PaphMadMan]

You've already been advised to wait for a second flowering and take care in staking before giving up on this plant for breeding. I would add that if the flower is of above average size for a 'good' armeniacum (check award records) and it is a vigorous plant more easily flowered than most, then it may be good breeding stock even if the petals remain somewhat reflexed. Form isn't the only consideration, just choose the other parent to help balance whatever flaws you perceive.

 

[biothanasis]

I love it!!!

 

[rdlsreno]

Nice going and welcome to Slippertalk Dan!!!


Ramon

 

[dan_t]

Thanks everyone for your kind welcome, and encouraging words!

@Slipperking - you are right - it was developing in a downward direction, so a couple of days before it started to open, I staked it. I will learn for next time!

@Paphmadman - I've had a quick look and used 'Golden Girl' as a marker of awarded clone size - 83 x 83 mm. I've measure mine and it is 80 wide by 89 top to bottom (but only if I flatten the petals!).

OK, I'll definitely be keeping it, and trying to flower it again. In the meantime, I'll look to buy one (or two...) awarded clones: I've got Ratcliffes in the UK, and have already bought some nice flasks from them, so will give them a call...

Thanks again

Dan

 

[SlipperFan]

Welcome, Dan. You started an interesting discussion about breeding, and what can happen with subsequent bloomings. I'm glad you decided to keep your plant and see if the next blooming is better -- it could be, both in size and shape.

You are apparently in the UK -- you know that we in the US are jealous of you now that Ratcliffe is no longer here.