Paphiopedilum rothschildianum with true pedigree, second flowering

[Roth]

Because in the Phragmipedium world, the misrepresentations and fraud have been blatant and pervasive. There is one well known Phragmipedium breeder who has been unapologetically blatant and fraudulent in their labels and use of names and another who openly used to sell plants that they had been told are mislabeled and misrepresented and kept pushing the names in the pursuit of keeping sales up. In the Paph world the unapologetic fraud has been kept quiet, largely. There are no nurseries selling seedlings of Paph elliotianum insisting they are a new species and not Roth’s.

Like I said, if you know of a specific nursery cheating buyers by mislabeling plants we should all know.

Best,

There are nurseries selling an urbanianum hybrid purchased from Schwerter as 'New Species', with a Muchenhausen fairy tale of 'come from Solomon, very rare remote island, from a private collection', I still have the photo... So, no worries, it is not different. As well available as ' real wentworthianum seedlings', or 'wentworthianum x javanicum' from honest ( of course) reliable sellers. Sad laugh...

There are many nurseries who put 'Mt Millais' as a pedigree cultivar name for rothschildianum seedlings, even though there are only extremely few divisions of it in the world that are real, and alive.

I know of Justin, mines, and that's all for today folks. But dozens of nurseries have 'Mt Millais' as a parent plant, though they 'did not take a photo because it is an ol'die but goo'die manny!' So not worth taking a photo. I beg to differ, as it is still award quality today. Just that they don't have the parent, but have 'bred' seedlings out of it... If you insist on getting a picture of 'their' Mt Millais', the camera did not work, it was not worth taking a photo, they don't know where is the picture, a 'friend' gave them the pollen, pick up your fairy tale out of that.

For the Phrags, I know at least 2 US people who bought from Klinge Orchids Phragmipedium hybrids, and they ended up indeed as various 'species' or 'selections' of sargentianum, ecuadorense, hirtzii, longifolium 'pygmy', and more and added ones... Rene Klinge was a superb grower of many Paphs and Phrag species for the wholesale market before, and a really nice person, so he sold the hybrids as hybrids. A pity they popped up as 'selections' or 'species' later around the world through several resellers...

 

[dodidoki]

There are nurseries selling an urbanianum hybrid purchased from Schwerter as 'New Species', with a Muchenhausen fairy tale of 'come from Solomon, very rare remote island, from a private collection', I still have the photo... So, no worries, it is not different. As well available as ' real wentworthianum seedlings', or 'wentworthianum x javanicum' from honest ( of course) reliable sellers. Sad laugh...

There are many nurseries who put 'Mt Millais' as a pedigree cultivar name for rothschildianum seedlings, even though there are only extremely few divisions of it in the world that are real, and alive.

I know of Justin, mines, and that's all for today folks. But dozens of nurseries have 'Mt Millais' as a parent plant, though they 'did not take a photo because it is an ol'die but goo'die manny!' So not worth taking a photo. I beg to differ, as it is still award quality today. Just that they don't have the parent, but have 'bred' seedlings out of it... If you insist on getting a picture of 'their' Mt Millais', the camera did not work, it was not worth taking a photo, they don't know where is the picture, a 'friend' gave them the pollen, pick up your fairy tale out of that.

For the Phrags, I know at least 2 US people who bought from Klinge Orchids Phragmipedium hybrids, and they ended up indeed as various 'species' or 'selections' of sargentianum, ecuadorense, hirtzii, longifolium 'pygmy', and more and added ones... Rene Klinge was a superb grower of many Paphs and Phrag species for the wholesale market before, and a really nice person, so he sold the hybrids as hybrids. A pity they popped up as 'selections' or 'species' later around the world through several resellers...

Yes, i have two plants of this rare solomon sp. seedling....do you know anybody who has this so called sp. and flowered yet?

 

[Roth]

Yes, i have two plants of this rare solomon sp. seedling....do you know anybody who has this so called sp. and flowered yet?

Unfortunately that's the picture I posted of it in the show. It was sold as well as wentworthianum x javanicum at the same time, with the same photo on the seller's website, now deleted.

 

[Roth]

Machan just posted on Facebook this picture from the 90s. It is the historical Val x Mt Millais. As one can see there is 'variation' but they look like Val and Mt Millais progeny. No dogs, no washed off flowers, no dropping petals, no yellow background with faint stripes. That proves once more my point...

 

[emydura]

Every one of those clones is exceptional. I assume it is not a random sample of the cross. They are all award quality, based on the photos, some maybe even FCC.

 

[FrankRC]

Machan just posted on Facebook this picture from the 90s. It is the historical Val x Mt Millais. As one can see there is 'variation' but they look like Val and Mt Millais progeny. No dogs, no washed off flowers, no dropping petals, no yellow background with faint stripes. That proves once more my point...

It does not. It only proves that the person who took this photo selected those plants from the cross that he wanted to photograph. There is nothing in this photo to prove your point.

Frank

 

[Roth]

It does not. It only proves that the person who took this photo selected those plants from the cross that he wanted to photograph. There is nothing in this photo to prove your point.

Frank

It does prove my point and you just said it. There are many more photos of Val x Mt Millais from the 90s, other individuals, including on internet, but that's not the matter here.

Those plants are selected, and equal/superior to Val or Mt Millais.

Show to me ONE photo from the Orchid Inn rothschildianum crosses that you can find which looks like the parents then, or could be 'selected' out of the masses of plants posted here and on facebook. Condition: equal or superior to Raptor, or Canadian Club, as an example.

 

[SlipperKing]

Xavier, did you ever give Mt Millais pollen to Yang-Ji in 2016 or maybe earlier? I have a roth in bud with the cross code YJ1553 with a 2016 date on it. I think the cross is 'Tiger' x ' Mt Millais'
I got it through HiLo Orchid Farm.

 

[Roth]

Xavier, did you ever give Mt Millais pollen to Yang-Ji in 2016 or maybe earlier? I have a roth in bud with the cross code YJ1553 with a 2016 date on it. I think the cross is 'Tiger' x ' Mt Millais'
I got it through HiLo Orchid Farm.

No, and the pollen appeared out of nowhere, brought back from 'Japan' by a Taiwanese who sold it to a couple of growers in Taiwan. From the pictures of the 'flowers', I would say that it is unlikely to be Mt Millais, but that's a very nice roth clearly... Yang-Ji can have great plants by the way...

 

[Elite Orchids]

to add to the thread here are 3 Paphiopedilum rothschildianum ‘Dark Angel’ x ‘Howard Martin’ FCC/AOS -in flower. Other pics of OrchidInn roths to follow too .

 

[monocotman]

They’re all nice but the first one is stunning for a first bloom.

 

[Ozpaph]

yes, please

 

[Elite Orchids]

Following on from this thread, here are some 1st year bloomers from Orchid Inn, i'll let you assess if you think they match their parents. please come back with any comments - and yes the one at the end is not a supardii ;-)

 

[Justin]

They all look like the same cross to me.

 

[Duck Slipper]

Yes...As much as I hate to say it, they all look like the same to me also.

 

[monocotman]

I know which group I’d pick. More evidence to support what Roth has been saying.

 

[Ozpaph]

let them open up properly, first. (and not supardii)

 

[FrankRC]

So let me understand the general ideas going through this thread.

First, if a roth is better than what Xavier has, and there are many I’ve seen his photos and I am not impressed, it must be a hybrid and the breeder/owner a liar and a fraud. Second, Taiwanese roth’s made with Mt. Millais surely are not, as it is either stated or implied that no plant was ever in Japan nor Taiwan and thus, if you want a roth made with Mt. Millais you can only get those from Xavier. Third, regardless of culture, plant selection, and genetic variability, Xavier is somehow qualified (self anointed? A legend in his own mind?) to tell you if the listed parents of your roth are accurate or not, thus resulting in direct or implied statements that the breeders, again, are liars and frauds. Am I understand all this correctly?

 

[richgarrison]

So let me understand the general ideas going through this thread.

First, if a roth is better than what Xavier has, and there are many I’ve seen his photos and I am not impressed, it must be a hybrid and the breeder/owner a liar and a fraud. Second, Taiwanese roth’s made with Mt. Millais surely are not, as it is either stated or implied that no plant was ever in Japan nor Taiwan and thus, if you want a roth made with Mt. Millais you can only get those from Xavier. Third, regardless of culture, plant selection, and genetic variability, Xavier is somehow qualified (self anointed? A legend in his own mind?) to tell you if the listed parents of your roth are accurate or not, thus resulting in direct or implied statements that the breeders, again, are liars and frauds. Am I understand all this correctly?

Knowing you and your candor. This convo is not nearly as entertaining as it would be in person…

 

[SlipperKing]

Here is another cross from Sam. I think it's a very early one.