Pearcei madness

[Rick]

Pearcei was the first Phrag I owned, and I started out with this plant in 2001 (from Andy's) I call it Mom. It has small growths and a very discreet blooming period each year. This year it has put up 10 spikes so far in the last few weeks.


A closeup of Mom's flowers. Small but with a nice pastel pink, and well defined spotting. The petals are always held straight down.


Here's a pic of Mom next to the flower of the plant I call "Pa". It has larger growths and flowers, but greener and less distinct spotting. It blooms almost all year round, but with sometimes it takes a month or 2 off. It has about 6 spikes going now, but its been in this cycle since this past winter.


Then Ma and Pa had some babies. This is my first Phrag breeding, and this is the first bloom from this breeding. Daughter is on the left.


This breeding seems to have accomplished part of what I was interested in with a bigger flower that retained allot of the good coloring of the Mom. We'll see if it has the blooming vigor of Pa in the future too.

 

[Rick]

Sorry about the big pic.

 

[Rob Zuiderwijk]

Hi Rick,

Mom is an impressive plant with nice flowers. Good growing.

A note about Pa. From what I can see in this photos I'm not sure Pa is a true pearcei. Shape and colouring of the lip and the colour of and they way the lateral sepals are held, it does remind me more of a Phrag. Green Hornet (longifolium x pearcei).

Maybe I'm wrong. What do others think?

Rob

 

[Candace]

I have to admit that the first thing I thought was that 'Pa' wasn't a true pearcei. But since I'm no taxonomist, maybe I'm wrong too.

It's nice seeing the family photo and you've got quite the specimen plant there!

 

[Rick]

Hi Rick,

Mom is an impressive plant with nice flowers. Good growing.

A note about Pa. From what I can see in this photos I'm not sure Pa is a true pearcei. Shape and colouring of the lip and the colour of and they way the lateral sepals are held, it does remind me more of a Phrag. Green Hornet (longifolium x pearcei).

Maybe I'm wrong. What do others think?

Rob

If anything Pa may have some richteri in it, but the plant and leaves are way to small to have any longifolium in it. Most people have claimed Pa to be the "true" ecuardorensis.

 

[Greenorchid]

OMG, what a stunnig plant!!:drool:

Congrats, Mom is really a beauty :clap:
And Pa also, whatever he is...

 

[Rick]

More madness. Here's a Phragmipedium group hug (from left to right) pearcei "mom", pearcei "pa", richteri (green giant Xsib), and longifolium. You can see that longifolium is a total monster compared to the pearcei's.


Here's some leaf/flower comparisons. Left is the richteri and leaf. Center is pearci "Pa" (large leaf) with pearcei "Ma"(skinny leaf). Right is longifolium with one of its smaller leaves (didn't want to cut off any of its better leaves).


Here's a closeup comparison of pearcei "Pa" with longifolium. I was able to find a couple of pics of Green Hornet by Googleing, and its much more intermediate between these two.


Some Green Hornet pics.
http://www.slipperorchids.info/phragprimaries/PhragGreenHornet2.jpg
http://www.slipperorchids.info/phragprimaries/PhragGreenHornet1.jpg

 

[SlipperFan]

Monster plant, indeed!

 

[JeanLux]

great plants and nice breeding performance Rick!! Jean

 

[NYEric]

I have 2 "pearcei", each with distinctly different size. I'm having so much trouble with them [scale and mealy farms/magnets] that I almost chucked them today. Now I see yours and I want more 'gulp' green phrags!

 

[Heather]

Interesting comparison Rick, great for all of us!

 

[John M]

Rick, I'm afraid that "Pa" is not pearcei. It's a hybrid with boisserianum influence.

It should be noted that the very small growing pearcei's, that are often called ecuadorense, or pearcei var. ecuadorense, are actually pure pearcei. What is commonly called pearcei today and especially the plants that have been awarded as pearcei are, by comparison, very large plants with larger flowers. In actuality, ecuadorense does not exist. What is refered to as ecuadorense is really just pearcei and what is refered to as pearcei is actually a natural hybrid, usually complex, with boisserianum influence.

In the wild, pure pearcei (commonly called ecuadorense in cultivation), is associated with colonies of pure boisserianum. As a result, there are hybrid swarms between the two species. Of course, the plants in these hybrid swarms are a mix of plants that are pearcei x boisserianum; but many of them are also the result of a hybrid back crossing to one of the founding species....and so on. So, the genetics is really impossible to decipher. Back in the day of collecting and exporting Phrags, the hybrids that were big, but, looked like pearcei were called pearcei and the hybrids that looked more like boisserianum were considered to be just small boisserianums. In the competative world of orchid showing and winning awards, people were all to willing to accept the larger imported plants as pearcei. They became so dominant in collections (because bigger is better, right?), while the much smaller, true pearcei's lost favour. Eventually, the small plants became known as var. ecuadorense, or just plain ecuadorense.

Your "Ma" looks like a pure pearcei (known horticulturally as ecuadorense); but, your "Pa" is a hybrid mix with boisserianum (known horticulturally as pearcei). It will be impossible to figure out it's exact lineage. It doesn't look like something as simple as a straight pearcei x boisserianum. It looks like maybe one of it's parents was a hybrid, either primary or complex and the other was another pure pearcei; but, exactly how many times each species is in it's family tree and for how many generations the mixing goes back in time, nobody can know. As beautiful as it is, I'd avoid using "Pa" in any more breeding and I'd label it as Phrag. pearcei/boisserianum natural hybrid complex.

 

[Rick]

John
From your description it sounds like there is no such thing as "true" pearcei since the hybrid swarm is so pervasive in the wild and in cultivation that Pa is the norm rather than the exception. Ma may be one of the last originals from the first virgin non-boisieranum contaminated populations! But as you pointed out that it is totally non competitive with all the awarded material. And from a conservation standpoint any cross between Ma and Pa would fit right in with the majority of what's already in the wild.

I had boisieranum at one time too, and the flower and plant are as big or bigger than longifollium. So if Pa has any of that in it it must be a very small percentage, and as you mentioned a natural hybrid.

I looked at a picture of pearcei "Candor red streamers" and the flower could be a dead ringer for "daughter"

Pretty interesting.

 

[Greenpaph]

Incredible plant!

I'm pearcied out!

:clap:

 

[John M]

John
From your description it sounds like there is no such thing as "true" pearcei since the hybrid swarm is so pervasive in the wild and in cultivation that Pa is the norm rather than the exception. Not exactly. There is really no such thing as a true ecuadorense. Horticulturally, we call the little ones ecuadorense; when in reality, botanically, they are the true pearcei! Once true pearcei (the tiny growth habit plants), were given the name ecuadorense, their popularity grew again. So now, what we have in cultivation is pearcei's being called ecuadorense and swarm hybrids with boissierianum (the larger plants), being called pearceiMa may be one of the last originals from the first virgin non-boisieranum contaminated populations! Well, it could be one of the original non-boissierianum contaminated plants; but, it's not one of just a few last plants. Lots of people have true pearcei (syn= ecuadorense). Unfortunately, lots of people also have the hybrid swarm type plants labelled as pearcei. But as you pointed out that it is totally non competitive with all the awarded material. And from a conservation standpoint any cross between Ma and Pa would fit right in with the majority of what's already in the wild. Yes, that's true; but, since we still have pure pearcei and pure boissierianum, it is best to keep them pure and label the plants with hybrid influence with the hybrid swarm influence title. After all, eventually, left to their own devices - and thousands of years of evolution, the hybrid swarms would branch off and become a new, third species. Or, the two species and the hybrid swarms would totally integrate and become one big, single species. It all depends on the geography and the accompanying climates and growth and reproductive pressures in the area and whether or not one, or both species, or all three grwoups can be as successful in the same environment. Only time will tell. Let's just wait...oh, say 100 000 years and discuss this again!

I had boisieranum at one time too, and the flower and plant are as big or bigger than longifollium. So if Pa has any of that in it it must be a very small percentage, and as you mentioned a natural hybrid. Yes, likely. Don't forget the larger, more boissierianum looking plants originating from the same hybrid swarms would be exported with the label of pure boissierianum, even though they had a tiny bit of pearcei in them.

I looked at a picture of pearcei "Candor red streamers" and the flower could be a dead ringer for "daughter"

Pretty interesting.

..

 

[MoreWater]

very interesting thread - thanks!

I was confused and still am, but now I can claim it is informed confusion :rollhappy:

 

[Rick]

very interesting thread - thanks!

I was confused and still am, but now I can claim it is informed confusion :rollhappy:

I'd like to see Gruss and McCook weigh in on this one. McCook in particular has spent allot of time in the field, and has reduced the taxonomic number of "true" Phrag species down to about 15 (with no varieties) since the local variation of various populations is tremendous.

 

[Marco]

good growing rick... they all look great