Nutrient deficiency?

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The green leaf veins and pale leaves suggest magnesium deficiency to me.

Too much light is a possible reason... To test this give them some magnesium (epson salts) and if they don't get green then dim the lights a bit and see if the plants respond.

The plants are clearly growing so I don't think nitrogen is the issue.
 
Mutant, I would consider repotting in bark/charcoal and doing away with the moss or maybe including a very small amount in your mix. You may find it easier to manage the plants in this type of mix. Then you can begin to feed them with some 50/50 nitrate/ammonium and/or urea type fertilizer once they are stablized in the new mix. And use some dolomite from time to time. (the more urea/ammonium, the more dolomite/limestone). Also go easy on the Magnesium. I don't think its the cause of the yellow leaves in your case. I would also consider a light foliar spray with a good quality Urea to get some color (N) back into the leaves and not so much pot feeding until the roots are growing well. Good luck!

Just re-reading your post you mentioned you repotted a month ago and they have good roots. This tells my they are definitly not short of Calcium but the ARE short of N. As Klite has plenty of N as Nitrate, it could mean that the plants are not converting the nitrate into useable ammonium. Roth has mentioned in the past that this could be due to a lack of Mo. Raising the pH of your medium will often overcome a Mo deficiency without adding more. So check the pH of your medium or repot without the sphag? Or.....drastically reduce the nitrate and increase the ammonium will give you the same results.
I add the sphag because it means I don't have to water them so often, and since I just repotted many of them, I don't want to disturb them any more than necessary. So for me, they get easier to care for with the sphag, but if it's unhealthy for them, I need to get rid of it.

Do I really have to add charcoal? It's not something that's easily available here in Sweden, unless you want to use for barbeque. Wouldn't leca work as well?

Reduce the nitrate and increase the ammonium? I can get ammonium at the local shop, but how much to 2 liters of water? And how do I reduce the nitrate? It's in the fertilizer?

Now, I'm even more confused than before...

Mutant:Listen to Mikes advice and get rid of that sphagnum. It just keeps things too wet. I never use it, except sometimes in connection with phrags but then on a very limited scale. Living in Sweden, you probably have the possibility to get out in the woods - or a park etc and find some moss. Look for a springy texture and make a mix like that of Lance Birk, ie 8parts bark, 2parts(compressed) moss cut in pieces. I use scissors for that so that it eventually end up as strands of perhaps 2cm to an inch, and finally one part of sand. Find a playground and take some sand from that:D. Mix well and moisten. You get a quite springy compost that may have to be packed a bit into the pot but it last for years. Personally, I tend to add gravel and perhaps limestone to the mix as well. With bigger plants it is good to have some weight at the base.:D
Rick: You touch into an enigma that has puzzled me for quite long. Many reports claim that paphs do not grow into the baserock and that the geology in many cases is more or less insignificant. Roth is supposed to be one such. Others like lithophytes obviously are exposed to the geology, my own experience using marble chips growing medium indicates that eg vietnamense tolerates limestone well, but roth not. The effect is stunted rootgrowth on else healthy plants(that does not grow much but looks ok). Even if marble is not ultrabasic, it has a bit of the same high pH and I would thus not expect that just altering to Mg minerals makes such a difference. Since I have plenty of roth seedlings and access to olivine grits( olivine is a magnesium silicate with some iron, one of the prime minerals of ultrabasic rocks, closely related to serpentine) I will do some tests. But that will be future when my roth flasks are ready for potting. However, since lots of people have success growing roth in more acid environments, Idoubt that this is the solution;);
As I wrote in the previous post, I use it so that I don't have to water too often (if it's sunny and with my fans on, they dry up in a day or two...). Your substrate suggestion doesn't sound half bad though. I'll think about it and see what I'll do. The ones that I repotted recently, will stay in their pots until I'm done testing to add the epsom salts.

Check the water quality with the city and found out the pH.

You can find pH test kits at aquarium shops.

My pH is around 6.8 and the water TDS is about 28PPM.
Now I have access to the documents I couldn't check yesterday. This is the water quality in my municipal:

dH:2.6-2.6 (soft water in other words)
pH: 7.9-8.6
Conductivity: 15-16 mS/m (which I think is about 150 PPM, or?)

I know where to get a pH meter, but I need to save some money first. This is not only killing the plants, but me too. :sob:

The green leaf veins and pale leaves suggest magnesium deficiency to me.

Too much light is a possible reason... To test this give them some magnesium (epson salts) and if they don't get green then dim the lights a bit and see if the plants respond.

The plants are clearly growing so I don't think nitrogen is the issue.
Okay, I've started to give them some epsom salts. If this doesn't work, then I'll try what Mike and Bjorn have suggested. Adding the epsom salts is the easiest thing to do, so that's why I'm starting with it.
 
....

Now I have access to the documents I couldn't check yesterday. This is the water quality in my municipal:

dH:2.6-2.6 (soft water in other words)
pH: 7.9-8.6
Conductivity: 15-16 mS/m (which I think is about 150 PPM, or?)

....

Your water is alkaline. I bet using 25-10-10 will help as it will bring down the pH as it is meant for acidic plants.
 
Oh, about the sphagnum, I forgot to add one very important thing: most of my Paphs have NOT had any sphagnum in the mix until when I repotted them recently ('Starship' is one of them). Some of them are showing the same signs as the multis, others seem not to be suffering from any deficiencies yet, so I don't know if the sphagnum is the guilty one, or if it'll turn out to worsen the problem.

Drat, I gave the wrong amount of sphagnum before. I use four parts bark, one part sphagnum and one part perlite. There, now I got it right! :)

Your water is alkaline. I bet using 25-10-10 will help as it will bring down the pH as it is meant for acidic plants.
I probably would, but unfortunately, I can't get any fertilizer with those numbers here in Sweden. I've looked and found nothing and I can't order from the U.S. either, I tried. :(
 
Your water is alkaline. I bet using 25-10-10 will help as it will bring down the pH as it is meant for acidic plants.

A high pH is not indicative of high alkalinity in soft low conductance water. So using the higher rates of N (especially if lopsided to ammonia and urea) will definitely crash the pH.

Recent article by Wang with orchids in moss. Incoming pH of water feed was adjusted up with NaOH, but pot pH dropped to <4.0 in short notice with heavy feedings of a fert with plenty of urea/ammonia.

That listed 8+ pH can drop with a sneeze given the softness of this water. So I would be cautious about increasing N alot without a pH meter handy.
 
dH:2.6-2.6 (soft water in other words)
pH: 7.9-8.6
Conductivity: 15-16 mS/m (which I think is about 150 PPM, or?)


Okay, I've started to give them some epsom salts. If this doesn't work, then I'll try what Mike and Bjorn have suggested. Adding the epsom salts is the easiest thing to do, so that's why I'm starting with it.

150uS/cm is a TDS of more like 75. This is a nice soft low TDS water.

What is the rate of epsom salt application. Don't need to get to crazy on this either.
 
A high pH is not indicative of high alkalinity in soft low conductance water. So using the higher rates of N (especially if lopsided to ammonia and urea) will definitely crash the pH.

Recent article by Wang with orchids in moss. Incoming pH of water feed was adjusted up with NaOH, but pot pH dropped to <4.0 in short notice with heavy feedings of a fert with plenty of urea/ammonia.

That listed 8+ pH can drop with a sneeze given the softness of this water. So I would be cautious about increasing N alot without a pH meter handy.

150uS/cm is a TDS of more like 75. This is a nice soft low TDS water.

What is the rate of epsom salt application. Don't need to get to crazy on this either.
Thanks for correcting the TDS Rick! I've no idea how to calculate that (I realized after posting my "answer").

Someone, don't remember whom, suggested 1tsp/gallon, less than 2ml/2liters of water. Is this okay?

Okay, I'll order the pH meter so I can check everything, and the TDS meter too. I think they might be necessary to be able to fix this, since otherwise you guys can only speculate what happens in the pots with the pH levels, and the TDS too.

Thanks for all the help so far, even if it's contradictory at times! :D
 
Thanks for correcting the TDS Rick! I've no idea how to calculate that (I realized after posting my "answer").

Someone, don't remember whom, suggested 1tsp/gallon, less than 2ml/2liters of water. Is this okay?

Okay, I'll order the pH meter so I can check everything, and the TDS meter too. I think they might be necessary to be able to fix this, since otherwise you guys can only speculate what happens in the pots with the pH levels, and the TDS too.

Thanks for all the help so far, even if it's contradictory at times! :D

TDS is (very) roughly 1/2 of the conductivity in uS/cm. So to convert from mS/meter to uS/cm multiply it by 10.

A tsp/gal is probably a good jump start, but for longer term you'll probably crank down to 1/8 tsp/gal if you are going to apply weekly or every other week.
 
TDS is (very) roughly 1/2 of the conductivity in uS/cm. So to convert from mS/meter to uS/cm multiply it by 10.

A tsp/gal is probably a good jump start, but for longer term you'll probably crank down to 1/8 tsp/gal if you are going to apply weekly or every other week.
Okay, thanks for helping out. Even I can calculate 1/2 of the conductivity. :D

I'll jot that down so I won't overfeed them, it would be very ironic if it turns out it's a Mg deficiency and I end up overdosing them with the salvation instead.
 
I would feed them Garden lime and epson salts water. Mine turned bright yellow I turned it around with lime.
 
I would feed them Garden lime and epson salts water. Mine turned bright yellow I turned it around with lime.
Lime? Hahaha! I thought you meant the fruit! :rollhappy: Oh, God, my internal translator has taken a leave of absence I think.

But why on earth would they suffer from calcium and Mg deficiency when they've been fed with K-lite? Something must've been disrupting their intake of it if that's the case... Chemistry! Is all I have to say about that...
 
The green leaf veins and pale leaves suggest magnesium deficiency to me.

Too much light is a possible reason... To test this give them some magnesium (epson salts) and if they don't get green then dim the lights a bit and see if the plants respond.

The plants are clearly growing so I don't think nitrogen is the issue.

In my experience, the only things that respond to dimming the lights are, teenagers, moths and bats!
 
To be honest, I think this has all become very technical, I doubt that the problems are all that great. I would hesitate to embark on a huge biochem crusade. Most problems are corrected by checking potting mix (4 parts bak, sphagnum and perlite does not sound bad, having said that I might be tempted to loose the surface dressing of sphagnum) water, ( the council water does not seem bad, perhaps a bit basic, so perhaps a slight correction to a pH of around 6.5 might be appropriate. Lighting, most paphs (without getting too technical) do fairly well with light conditions in most well lit rooms, and enjoy an east window if available, good humidity, gentle movement of air and then a bit of food. Many threads point out that a lot of orchids do well with no feeding other than what they get in their water. I have often found that if I encounter problems, that reverting to plain water for a month or two will generally see a general improvement (which further emphasizes the dilemma of wether to feed or not, and if to feed, then how much?). I would only then start to fiddle with chemicals. I would start with a dilute organic such as kelp and then start with the inorganics. I am a bit concerned that Mutant is changing too many things too quickly. ( sorry, that is a carpenter talking, not a scientist, I just believe a safe solution is one in moderation)
 
To be honest, I think this has all become very technical, I doubt that the problems are all that great. I would hesitate to embark on a huge biochem crusade. Most problems are corrected by checking potting mix (4 parts bak, sphagnum and perlite does not sound bad, having said that I might be tempted to loose the surface dressing of sphagnum) water, ( the council water does not seem bad, perhaps a bit basic, so perhaps a slight correction to a pH of around 6.5 might be appropriate. Lighting, most paphs (without getting too technical) do fairly well with light conditions in most well lit rooms, and enjoy an east window if available, good humidity, gentle movement of air and then a bit of food. Many threads point out that a lot of orchids do well with no feeding other than what they get in their water. I have often found that if I encounter problems, that reverting to plain water for a month or two will generally see a general improvement (which further emphasizes the dilemma of wether to feed or not, and if to feed, then how much?). I would only then start to fiddle with chemicals. I would start with a dilute organic such as kelp and then start with the inorganics. I am a bit concerned that Mutant is changing too many things too quickly. ( sorry, that is a carpenter talking, not a scientist, I just believe a safe solution is one in moderation)

I totally agree! KISS (Keep it simple stupid) I use my regular fertilizer of 25-10-10, 20-20-20 and 10-52-10 and have not used 'special fertilizer' and they still grow well. I think water quality is detrimental to the health of orchids in general! If you can't drink the tap water then your orchids will probably not like it either!
 

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