Yes, I Want To Know About CHC

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In my experience, CHC is the best medium I have ever used for most epiphytes...cattleya's, oncidioids, vandaceous, and dendrobiums love it....on repotting, after several years, the medium is packed solidly with roots. On the other hand, phal's and pleurothallids hate it. For terrestrials, its OK as an addition to a cymbidium mix. For slippers, phrags hate it...I gave up on using it for paphs. On repotting, paphs will do really well, then decline. In all fairness, not all paphs..multiflorals like philipinense love CHC...but others like haynaldianum hate it. Barbata hate it....insigne types and cochlo's tolerate it well enough...brachy's and parvis do Ok in it, but delanatii hates it. Overall, I just use bark based mix for all slippers now...but CHC exclusively for most epiphytes. And, yes, I soak it thoroughly, at least 3 times...5 gal water to 1 gal CHC, with the second soaking conatining MgSO4 and calcium nitrate......Take care, Eric

My experience with CHC is similar to Erics, however, my collection is mostly paphs, and its not a big collection, so my multis are in CHC while I'm still playing around with various bark mixtures for Barbata. I get my CHC from Robert's Flower Supply, who tell me that their source is Sri Lankan. At one time Sri Lankan was superior to Mexican since it seemed that Mexican CHC had problems desalting no matter how you tried to rinse it.
 
when you talk about certain Paph groups not growing well in CHC are you talking about in just CHC or a mix with CHC in it? I have several delenatiis growing in the mix I use and so far they are doing ok

Todd
 
I went to the Roberts Flower Supply site and it has several
options for chc.

I am assuming (not always safe without asking) that it is
straight chunk either bagged or a bale?

I ask because I saw a compressed brick offered, but it was
the coir (peat-type) and chunk mixed.

As for size - I am thinking in the medium range for epiphytes.
Does that sound right?
 
when you talk about certain Paph groups not growing well in CHC are you talking about in just CHC or a mix with CHC in it? I have several delenatiis growing in the mix I use and so far they are doing ok

Todd

I've never tried straight CHC except for some Catts (which have done just fine in it straight up). But the barbata type paphs (wardii, callosum, sukhakulii, barbatum, appletoniuanum, etc.) have been in mixes with sphagnum, sponge rock and charcoal (varying). For me, some have done OK for a year or two, but even with annual (or more frequent) repotting they ended up doing poorly. I rarely have problems with multis in CHC mixes at all in comparison.
 
I went to the Roberts Flower Supply site and it has several
options for chc.

I am assuming (not always safe without asking) that it is
straight chunk either bagged or a bale?

I ask because I saw a compressed brick offered, but it was
the coir (peat-type) and chunk mixed.

As for size - I am thinking in the medium range for epiphytes.
Does that sound right?

I've never tried the coir, just small or medium chunk. Bag or bale just depends on how much you want for your $.

Even though they say its fully rinsed, I still go through a whole rinsing process when I get it , including a spike with Ca/Mg phosphate and MgSO4
 
First Ray's sells CaNO3...he's on this group. I only use plain CHC on Cattleya's and other epiphytes. When I still used it on paphs, it was part of a mix with lots of sponge rock, charcoal, lava rock....if you use it on paphs, make sure that there is lots of aeration in the mix...and repot frequently.
 
I was having a lot of trouble with various Barbata species (callosum, purpuratum, hookerae etc) in bark. The leaves were dying off quicker than they could be replaced. I tried CHC's and they have never looked back. I think it all depends on your culture. CHC's are a lot different to bark. Hence your culture must be different as well. CHC's will suit some peoples culture but not others.

I have found CHC's take a long time to break down. If you need to repot regularly with it, you are not starting off with the right mix. You need a coarser mix and a shallower pot. I would also never combine it with sphagnum moss. I did to begin with as I initially found CHC's on its own dried out too fast. However after a few months the mix became so clogged up it would never dry out.

David
 
I think it is clear from this discussion one of my original points that everyone's conditions are different. Some can grow anything in it, others only Coryos, others Barbata... Look at the geography of your respondants too- NY, CA, IL, Australia, MN, South Africa, etc. How do they compare to AL?

Therefore, if you WANT it to work, the correct question to ask is "hey all of you that like it, what are your conditions (water, year-round min max temps, light, GH or lights, ammendments, pot types (plastic, clay, tall, short, clear, opaque, lotsa holes, few...), fertilizer, media prep, etc???"

Anyway, I love playing with mixes. Go for it! Try some plants in CHC and see how they do. Good luck! Have fun!

-Ernie
 
All of this being said, when choosing a mix, I'd recommend to use components that are...

available
affordable (unit cost and shipping!)
consistent

-Ernie
 
I think it is clear from this discussion one of my original points that everyone's conditions are different. Some can grow anything in it, others only Coryos, others Barbata... Look at the geography of your respondants too- NY, CA, IL, Australia, MN, South Africa, etc. How do they compare to AL?

Therefore, if you WANT it to work, the correct question to ask is "hey all of you that like it, what are your conditions (water, year-round min max temps, light, GH or lights, ammendments, pot types (plastic, clay, tall, short, clear, opaque, lotsa holes, few...), fertilizer, media prep, etc???"

Anyway, I love playing with mixes. Go for it! Try some plants in CHC and see how they do. Good luck! Have fun!

-Ernie

Right on Ernie.

I'm in TN (just an hour or so away from the AL border. So conditions are close (just a tad cooler) than most Al conditions. But there are still a ton of other variables as you noted. There are some great growers in the Huntsville and Birmingham societies that I'm sure also use CHC at some level. So there should be somebody within driving range down there in Al for you to access.

Rick
 
Right.

I'm getting a good picture.

One point Earnie brings up that is pertinent is with
regard to fertilizing.

If you are not repotting often, for whatever reason, are
you getting build-up? (That sort of applies anywhere.)
 
All of this being said, when choosing a mix, I'd recommend to use components that are...

available
affordable (unit cost and shipping!)
consistent

-Ernie

We have only been able to use CHC's here in Australia in the last 2 or 3 years. So we are still coming to terms with it.

CHC's are certainly cheaper. It is less than half the price of bark and you don't need to repot as often. I'd say it is about the 1/5 of the price of bark all up.

David
 
I must add that i pot my paphs in tall pots. CHC plants, when repotted, had new roots only on top...deep roots were dead, and the bottom CHC chips were surprisingly broken down after a year in the mix...as bad as bark. However...could US sources of CHC be different from Australian? Take care, Eric
 
I must add that i pot my paphs in tall pots. CHC plants, when repotted, had new roots only on top...deep roots were dead, and the bottom CHC chips were surprisingly broken down after a year in the mix...as bad as bark. However...could US sources of CHC be different from Australian? Take care, Eric

That is my experience as well. The roots don't tend to go very deep. That is why I prefer shallower/wider pots. I use deep pots for bark as well.

I'm sure there are differences between the various suppliers. There is only one place in Australia you can buy reliable CHC's. The others are terrible. Have too much fine stuff and I think too much salt. The company I get mine from have started shipping it in from Sri Lanka over the last couple of years. They have gone to a lot of trouble to promote CHCs as previous experiences with CHC's in this country has been terrible. Many growers swear they will never use it again as a result. My provider guarantees that the mix has a maximum salt level and tests regularly to ensure that it doesn't exceed safe limits. I heard recently they rejected a whole shipment as they were unhappy with the level of salt. I'm not sure other sellers are so conscientious.

David
 
Right.

I'm getting a good picture.

One point Earnie brings up that is pertinent is with
regard to fertilizing.

If you are not repotting often, for whatever reason, are
you getting build-up? (That sort of applies anywhere.)

The multis I have in it generally go for 2 or so years before repotting. I don't see the typical signs of salt buildup, but I also irrigate during the rest of the time with RO water, only fertilizing on Sundays. If you looked at the recent thread of my stonei, and look up another big thread titled To Chc Or Not To Chc? (last post in 11/2008 in the slipper culture section), you would also see that I use pretty small pots for large plants. So it doesn't take much water to flush out the pots, and they dry quicker between waterings.

As Ernie pointed out there's a ton of variables to consider.
 
Sunshine, congratulations, you have started what became the sanest, most thoughtful and useful thread on this subject I've seen. You've gotten great input from folks who have good experience. You will notice a couple of common themes, you can grow Paphs in just about anything as long as it supports the roots and holds some moisture and air, and does not contain toxic substances in concentration. A few years backm when he was alive, Nic von Bosch from Tasmania would have suggested fresh horse manure with which he was very successful. Second theme is you have to match your conditions. High humidity gives you lots of leeway, if you have low humidity you really have to finetune. Do not let people convince you Paphs will die if they dry out once in a while, this is just not true and quite frankly they would have pretty much perished from the earth long ago if it was. Ideally you will design a mix that will approach drying without being "bone" dry in about three days. Many use multiple component mixes with water retentive items such as CHC or bark or moss, and less water retentive items such as sponge rock and charcoal so they can fine tune the mix to meet the above. Humidity, pot such, plant size particularly with regard to the root system, temperature, light and many other factors will affect the rate of drying. Another theme is that the same components are not always of the same quality. We tested and used CHC when the quality bark we had been using became unavailable, and only precomposted bark was on the market. Later, we saw the quality of CHC we could get deteriorate, but good bark again became available. Whatever you use, learn how to prepare it properly, be it pre-soaking bark or properly rinsing CHC in an ion exchange process, do not rely on the suppliers statements. And finally, with a few exception regular repotting really is useful, the exceptions we have found are stonei and sanderianum where you have to be ultra careful not to disturb the root system, and the really fat rooted brachys. Also, always be aware that change in mix that creates a dramatic shift in the moisture air ratio of the root systems environment will cause some initial root loss, the goal is to time it so that the new root growth will be vigorous, for example if you live in the north where I do mid winter is not a good time to change mixes, rather wait for spring. Well, I've probably used up most of my spare time for the month, but it was really encouraging to see such consistently thoughtful responses.
 
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