"Variety of concolor" argument

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Shadow

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Couple of days ago I came across this variety of concolor. The seller (private person, small orchid dealer) claim it is the concolor var. chedi-sam-ongensis But, as far as I know, there is no such official concolor variety ( I double checked in the Kew database and in the Averyanov's book) . The further my questions regarding the correct name have led into quite rude and unpleasant argument. Personally, I think it looks like a nice striatum, but the seller says it is definitely not striatum.

The photo is not mine and not the seller's either. I don't know who is the author. Moreover, it is not the same plant that the seller has been selling. That plant hasn't bloomed yet. But it is an example of the variety, the seller says.

What do you think?

 

Roy

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I think the seller is not one I would visit again and the pictured one does look a bit like both, the longisepalum & striatum.
If the plant hasn't flowered yet, how would he know what it looks like and the pic an "example", well, I think you need to flower the plant to know what you actually have.
 
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goldenrose

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Are the leaves mature enough to compare to photos?
I would think that would be inconclusive. As we found out with the concolor v.chlorophyllum post, there's alot of difference in concolor leaves, above & below. It's gotta bloom!
 

labskaus

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Watching a seller becoming uneasy or angry when asked detailed questions is something I've seen before and I always find it very interesting. I always felt I learned a lot both about the persons attitude and orchid knowledge.

The concolor var. longipetalum was scientifically described only in 2006, the link shoes a page from the original article:

http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/tanaka/orchid/org/shinshu/enshinshu44.html

Averyanov may not mention it because it is not a Vietnamese variety, but restricted to Northern Thailand/Burma.
The leaves in the pic you show look a lot like my plant of var. longipetalum, but mine was absolutely flat open and not cupped, like the flowers in the article.

I think the name chedi-sam-ongensis was used before the variety has been given a valid scientific name. Just a trade name, like so many others.

Best wishes, Carsten
 

Candace

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People slap unaccepted varietal names on paphs and it does get confusing. People do this with catts. too, especially L. purpuratas. Any vendor that gets into a rude and unpleasant argument with me, rather than explaining something to my satisfaction, wouldn't get my business.
 

PaphMadMan

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Couple of days ago I came across this variety of concolor. The seller (private person, small orchid dealer) claim it is the concolor var. chedi-sam-ongensis But, as far as I know, there is no such official concolor variety ( I double checked in the Kew database and in the Averyanov's book) . The further my questions regarding the correct name have led into quite rude and unpleasant argument. Personally, I think it looks like a nice striatum, but the seller says it is definitely not striatum.

The photo is not mine and not the seller's either. I don't know who is the author. Moreover, it is not the same plant that the seller has been selling. That plant hasn't bloomed yet. But it is an example of the variety, the seller says.

What do you think?
While it may not be a published variety name at this point, it could be somenone's attempt to label a possibly distinctive population of plants collected in the area of Three Pagodas Pass (Darn Chedi Sam Ong) on the Thailand-Myanmar border, or at least lead people to believe that is where they are from. Unflowered plants could be reasonably expected to be similar to a photo if it was typical of the population, so perhaps there has been no attemtp to mislead or misrepresent, but I might question if the plants were legally collected and imported.
 
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goldenrose

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My first thought was ripoff. BUT there's undoubtedly undiscovered varieties as PaphMadman has suggested. There are some individuals that could easily be upset that their integrity or knowledge is being questioned, without knowing this individual it's hard to tell.
 

truemadman

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While it may not be a published variety name at this point, it could be somenone's attempt to label a possibly distinctive population of plants collected in the area of Three Pagodas Pass (Darn Chedi Sam Ong) on the Thailand-Myanmar border, or at least lead people to believe that is where they are from. Unflowered plants could be reasonably expected to be similar to a photo if it was typical of the population, so perhaps there has been no attemtp to mislead or misrepresent, but I might question if the plants were legally collected and imported.
That's right! Actaully, there is a distinct varity of concolor collected from that area, known amoung local (Thai) as concolor Darn Chedi Sam Ong (or conclor Chedi Sam Ong.) If one is looking for this particular varity in its native land, that name has to be used, otherwise, no body would know what you are looking for. And that particular varity is.....

Amoung all the paph concolor population, this varity's location is closest to the location of the var longipetalum hence the similarlity.

BTW, this particular varity is very difficult to come by now a day which suggests that the wild population is very very limited.
 

Shadow

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It looks like the "longisepalum" (or somethhing like that) varity
the pictured one does look a bit like both, the longisepalum & striatum.
Yes, actually I was thinking between striatum and longipetalum, long petals are obvious, but the staminode looks more similar to the striatum's one. Or may be I'm wrong here...
 

Shadow

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The concolor var. longipetalum was scientifically described only in 2006, the link shoes a page from the original article:

http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/tanaka/orchid/org/shinshu/enshinshu44.html

Averyanov may not mention it because it is not a Vietnamese variety, but restricted to Northern Thailand/Burma.
Thanks for the link. Actually, Averyanov did mention var. longipetalum in his book. But he provided only the brief description of the flower, without mentioning the geographical area.
 

Shadow

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While it may not be a published variety name at this point, it could be somenone's attempt to label a possibly distinctive population of plants collected in the area of Three Pagodas Pass (Darn Chedi Sam Ong) on the Thailand-Myanmar border, or at least lead people to believe that is where they are from.
Thanks a lot! At least now I know one possible origin of that name.
 

Shadow

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Actaully, there is a distinct varity of concolor collected from that area, known amoung local (Thai) as concolor Darn Chedi Sam Ong (or conclor Chedi Sam Ong.) If one is looking for this particular varity in its native land, that name has to be used, otherwise, no body would know what you are looking for.
Yes, if I would get the answer like this I would definitely bought it, but the seller didn't explain to me the origin of the name. Instead, he asked me TO PROVE that var. Chedi Sam Ong ensis isn't accepted officially. I showed him the Kew database and Averyanov's book, but he wasn't satisfied. He told me that I'm not a botanist - taxonomist, so I don't have rights to discuss the name and should accept the thing like it is.

He is not the first hand dealer, who travel a lot and know a lot about his plants, just the small extra earnings from buying where cheaper and selling at more expensive price.

By the way, the plant has dissapeared after this argument, and I can't say I'm very upset that I didn't silently buy it.

Thank you all. Now I feel much better. No more wondering around suspicious dealers.
 
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