Candace
Well-Known Member
Ditto what Lance said. All except the CHC. Hated it.
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NYEric
Well-Known Member
No carpet for me, inlaid wood tiles to ruin, next I'll use gilded Corintian Marble! :rollhappy:gonewild said:
How is that an organic mix?gonewild said:
I'm giving the plants a chance to grow into whichever they like. If it roots into the leca type stuff or the CHC it likes to dry off, if it grows into the diatomite or coconut chips it likes it moist but at least it has variety,gonewild said:
NYEric said:
My comment would be way to controversial.
Any mix that contains organic material is organic.
Makes sense. But...
You are also forcing the plant to make a choice. Plants think slow when it comes to choices. First they have to evaluate all their choices and then try to get around the ones they hate, to get to the ones they love. Wouldn't it be better to decide which one they love and give them a pot full of the ideal component?
Also if there are components that they don't like in the pot won't that reduce the volume of area in the pots where roots will grow?
Plant roots do have some difficulty with bridging changes in the soil type/texture. For some reason a change in soil type can often act as a block wall to roots, that is why roots suddenly take a turn and go a different direction.
I'm not saying a blended mix is wrong or not good to use. I just feel that the mix content is more for the benefit of the grower. Mixes tend to get developed to fit the growers demands or schedule rather than the plants.
But that is OK, because we are the bosses, or are we?
Candace said:
Well, I should note that I have never used CHC here in the states. I prepared my own from coconuts that grew on our own trees in Peru. They never touched salt water. I think some of the coconut products sold now are not selected and prepared correctly for horticulture use. You need to find a dependable brand low in sodium.
But that is another reason why I use leca!
NYEric
Well-Known Member
for CHC I meant Horticultural charcoal, sorry. i.e. not organic.
NYEric
Well-Known Member
I don't know if there is an ideal that we can have, therefore I do what's natural.gonewild said:
gonewild said:
If we were the bosses Phrag besseae and Paph sanderianum would be lawn plantings.
oke:
Carol
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Gonewild:
How often to you water your plants?
Do you fertilize every time you water?
What media are they planted in?
How much light to your plants get?
I use the MSU solution 1/2 tsp. per gallon every time that I water the phrags. My other orchids in s/h receive 3/4 tsp. per gallon solution every time that I water. I generally have to water at least 2x a week, sometimes more. There are so many roots in a few of the pots and those are the ones that I have to water every other day. They are all potted in the original primeagra from First Rays. Ray gave a talk at one of our society meetings, OS of Western PA, a number of years ago. My orchids summer outside on my front steps which is northern exposure in the summer. The ones that are not blooming are under flourescents in my finished basement this time of the year. They will not go outdoors until the end of May if I am lucky. I think one of the keys to establish phrags and paphs in the aggregate is temps above 60 degrees at night. I have oncidiums, a brassia, and a number of phals in the mix also.
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How often to you water your plants?
Do you fertilize every time you water?
What media are they planted in?
How much light to your plants get?
I use the MSU solution 1/2 tsp. per gallon every time that I water the phrags. My other orchids in s/h receive 3/4 tsp. per gallon solution every time that I water. I generally have to water at least 2x a week, sometimes more. There are so many roots in a few of the pots and those are the ones that I have to water every other day. They are all potted in the original primeagra from First Rays. Ray gave a talk at one of our society meetings, OS of Western PA, a number of years ago. My orchids summer outside on my front steps which is northern exposure in the summer. The ones that are not blooming are under flourescents in my finished basement this time of the year. They will not go outdoors until the end of May if I am lucky. I think one of the keys to establish phrags and paphs in the aggregate is temps above 60 degrees at night. I have oncidiums, a brassia, and a number of phals in the mix also.
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NYEric said:
OOps maybe I made an error. Is CHC coconut or charcoal?
I don't use either so maybe I got the abbrev. mixed up.
FYI. In Peru I mixed chopped coconut with charcoal and it worked extremely well. But carbon is really cheap in the jungle because people cook with it. I think it makes a great organic mix additive.
And why is charcoal not organic? All the charcoal I am familiar with comes from trees which would make it very organic.
Carol said:
Just throwing out ideas....
I'm wondering if your Phrags had a problem with the higher dose because they consumed more water faster and tended to dry out a little more. As Leo suggested in another thread it is when Phrags are a little water deficient that they get tip burn from higher salts. Phrags are water hogs.
I've used up to 3/4 tsp per gallon MSU on my Phrag seedlings and they have no tip burn, but I keep them wet all day long. 14 hrs of light.
I do have some plants separated and growing near a window that don't get as much water, growing more in a traditional s/h manor and misted with pure water several times per day. They get less fertilizer but they did have some leaf tip burn. I increased both the water and fertilizer they get and the leaf tip damage stopped. I think it is water stress influenced by higher salt levels that causes the problem.
So if you can't keep your Phrags wet maybe it is better to keep the fertilizer levels low. But doesn't that mean your plants won't be growing as fast as they could be?
E
Eric Muehlbauer
Guest
OK....the plant is growing in a former 1 L seltzer bottle, holes up 1.5" from the bottom...I used that container because the roots fit right into it. I'm using Ray's original Prime agra, and the plants are under 4 40wt fluorescent bulbs, near the end where the light is somewhat weaker. The older (not oldest) leaves are the healthiest, not the newest...then again, I'm not used to SH phrags even putting out leaves. While my other SH phrags don't grow too much, they have normally colored foliage. According to the label on my container of MSU (also from Ray), I am giving it the equivalent of 75ppm N in my dilution. My usual phrag medium is bark, mixed with spongerock, chopped NZ sphagnum, and a touch of charcoal. Those plants get watered at least 5 days/ week, whenever the saucers get drained. (Only a few phrags are under lights, the rest are on my windowsills.) Eric- my phrags are always watered heavily, but they really suck out that water! That's why the phrags seemed so dry. Also some of those phrags came from my daughter's room...hotter and drier than the other rooms where I grow phrags...but you don't quibble with a southern exposure! My SH plants get topped off 3 times/week with the fertilizer solution. To be honest, they did better when they were topped off with plain water in between. Overall, I have found that phrags really seem to thrive in bark...they'll take CHC well enough, but really thrive in bark...even old mix. I liked the convenience (and fun) of potting up in SH, but I doubt that I will continue with it...I'll experiment some more with it, but at least for slippers, the traditional media work best. By the way, I recently got some stuff called Dyna-rok....is it the same as Diatomite? Certainly looks like it...Take care, Eric
P
PHRAG
Guest
The whole point is, what works for some WILL NOT work for everyone. If you asked me to go back to using sphag in my potting mixes, I would kick you in the shin. I hate that crap. But it works for others.
I have found that my conditions make Prime Agra (the old stuff) the only logical choice. Moss stays damp longer, and with my humidity would be too soggy. I don't even have to water my mounts every day in my growing environment.
I applaud those of you who have found what works for you. I encourage everyone to experiment with mixes until you find out what works.
As for leaftip burn. I heard this tip on some other forum long ago, and I have no idea if it's true or not. Since I started doing it, I haven't seen one burnt tip, so I am going to keep doing it. Before I fertilize, I make sure to pour some straight R/O water into the pots to get the roots wet. I think the point is to make sure the roots are good and wet before you add any water/fertilizer mix to the pot. Yes, in effect I am watering my orchids twice, and this just isn't feasible for some. But I am going to keep doing it, because it works for me.
I have found that my conditions make Prime Agra (the old stuff) the only logical choice. Moss stays damp longer, and with my humidity would be too soggy. I don't even have to water my mounts every day in my growing environment.
I applaud those of you who have found what works for you. I encourage everyone to experiment with mixes until you find out what works.
As for leaftip burn. I heard this tip on some other forum long ago, and I have no idea if it's true or not. Since I started doing it, I haven't seen one burnt tip, so I am going to keep doing it. Before I fertilize, I make sure to pour some straight R/O water into the pots to get the roots wet. I think the point is to make sure the roots are good and wet before you add any water/fertilizer mix to the pot. Yes, in effect I am watering my orchids twice, and this just isn't feasible for some. But I am going to keep doing it, because it works for me.
Eric Muehlbauer said:
Eric, I think if any thing your plants in s/h should be watered more often than those in organic mixes under the same conditions. You water your organic mixes 5 times per week and the leca only 3 times. Your Phrags are probably staying too dry. I'm not sold on relying on s/h wicking to provide enough water although it might. But I think Phrags thrive with more water near the surface and leca drys fast at the surface. Try watering your Phrag a lot more, try to drown it and see what happens.
PHRAG said:
When I was a little kid my mother always told me the same thing. Gotta water plants before you fertilize them or they will burn. So that theory has been around a long time!
It is a good practice... I think the more water the better. :clap:
I don't think the theory is really an effect when you apply fertilizers as weak solutions like we are talking about. back when the theory was formulated fertilizers were usually applied once a month and in strong doses. In that situation having the roots wet would help to reduce the salt concentration hitting the root tissue.
The way I grow my plants there is no need to pour water onto the plants to get them wet before fertilizing because my roots are always wet!
You are right John, once you find a method that works you can stick with it. In my case I like to hear what works and does not work for others so I can try different ideas. I want to learn how to allow the plants to grow better. There is always a better way.
E
Eric Muehlbauer
Guest
Well, I'm used to drowning phrags....I actually find that the underlights sh phrags use less water than the SH phrags on the windowsill, where most of them are. The reservoir never runs dry, while the windowsill SH really could use a daily addition. I'll try keeping it wetter. Then again, I could always just transplant it into bark mix....but one of the reasons for why I experiment on phrags so much is that I am really a (no darts, sticks, or rocks please...) a paph lover, not that much of a phrag fan. I don't mind losing phrags as much as I do losing paphs. Of course, I almost never lose phrags. Murphy's Law prevails, as always. As for fertilizing, I agree with the advice that Jack fowlie gave many years ago in the OD....paphs and phrags should be watered first, before fertilizing. Epiphytic orchids, with thick velum, should be fertilized dry....otherwise, the velum might be saturated and less able to absorb fertilizer solution. I don't always water before fertilizing my slippers, but I only fertilize them when they are alredy wet. Take care, Eric
NYEric
Well-Known Member
BLASPHEMER!!!!Eric Muehlbauer said:
oke:e-spice
Well-Known Member
Back to the bleaching issue, Eric, did you use any Merit or Bayer insecticide on this plant? Just curious. Sometimes my phrags will develop some slightly bleaching in the leaves after I apply Merit.
e-spice
e-spice
E
Eric Muehlbauer
Guest
No, no insecticide at all. The insecticides I do use are Sunspray oil, for scale, pyrethrin, for mealies, and a bifenthrin spray for tough cases of mealies in paphs. This phrag has never had any kind of bug, so no spray of any type. I find most phrags pest resistant, but for some reason, some of my phrags, including pearcei, are scale magnets (as Eric found out from a few plants I gave him...). Take care, Eric
Candace
Well-Known Member
That's odd you say that. I don't ever get bugs on any of my phrags, but my pearcei has had mealies twice. I thought it was really odd only one of my phrags had ever had them!
NYEric
Well-Known Member
I find any Phrag can get mealies. I find this problem especially w/ one vendor I deal with. You just have to get inside the leaves and clean. I was surprised that Plueros have a problem w/ scale and other pests but i guess some of the plants were wild collected or have never been sprayed.
