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orchid527

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I saw where a bunch of red phals had been awarded in the June ORCHIDS. I went to the grower's website and discovered they had more for sale. I ordered 4 seedlings for $120. I figured the chances were slim that I would get a nice one, but I was willing to take a chance that one might be a keeper when they bloom. Received them today and discovered they are already bloomed plants with the last of the sad flowers fading, ones that should have been culled, ones that no one would ever personally select. I just threw them in the trash. I am reminded of a saying "Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". There won't be a second time. Fortunately, not much money lost in the transaction. Mike
 

Carmella.carey

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I saw where a bunch of red phals had been awarded in the June ORCHIDS. I went to the grower's website and discovered they had more for sale. I ordered 4 seedlings for $120. I figured the chances were slim that I would get a nice one, but I was willing to take a chance that one might be a keeper when they bloom. Received them today and discovered they are already bloomed plants with the last of the sad flowers fading, ones that should have been culled, ones that no one would ever personally select. I just threw them in the trash. I am reminded of a saying "Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". There won't be a second time. Fortunately, not much money lost in the transaction. Mike
I would still try to get my money back...
Just, damn I can't get over the fact that they sold you rejected individuals.
Patrick
 

NYEric

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If they are already bloomed why would you not keep them and bloom them again to see the result?
Unless they're diseased, next time you're throwing stuff away...
 

Paphluvr

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Just because they were previously bloomed doesn't mean they were bad, they just weren't great for breeding or as "select" plants. I think a scrupulous dealer would toss a truely inferior or deformed flower. I find that a "Are they previously bloomed?" avoids such situations.
 

richgarrison

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Just because they were previously bloomed doesn't mean they were bad, they just weren't great for breeding or as "select" plants. I think a scrupulous dealer would toss a truely inferior or deformed flower. I find that a "Are they previously bloomed?" avoids such situations.
agreed for sure on the "I find that a "Are they previously bloomed?" avoids such situations." part when you are dealing with someone you haven't before, and haven't established that foundation...

I made that mistake when i finally decided to try and ignore orchid limited's pricing and buy into what looked like great possibilities. When i received a plant that had previously bloomed, i realized your same thought. I had just 'assumed' that was a given.. not so much... just ask...
 

Rosebud1920

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This is an issue I see with orchid industry in general. And I have stopped buying seedlings ie hybrids unless I can pick them out blooming in the greenhouse. I buy mericlones for the most part — I fall in love with a photo and I want the plant to look like that gorgeous purple with the Ruby lip photo not some washed out peach ugly color. It’s not always just the color that bothers me but it’s also the shape is so far off from the photo shown. It’s a bad shape - petals not balanced, sepals all folded or unevenly curled over, petals not matching plus the bad color. I bought a bunch of plants when I got back into orchids a few years ago when I started ordering from out of town again— Vandas and quite honestly out of 17 only a couple are decent enough to keep. I got one I email complained of every leaf drooping and before I could call to talk to them, they had already shipped another one that looked exactly like the first one. This was one they built up and the photos showed them as nice firm, spritely seedlings not this mess. Since I have seen others of same plant (Non blooming) and every plant is the same — they should have all been culled not sold. It appears once they get to a couple years, they just all droop. And of course, they don’t show a mature plant. But virtually every plant has the same breeding and very few they do of their own is worth much to look at. Those that are it’s just a few and they are selling based on those really nice plants at $400-$1200 and up each. Well I think most people has seen enough of them now they don’t want those ugly things… they wanted the really pretty ones. And they buy those coming from elsewhere or it seems that way to me. That’s why I check and those sell quick. Of course I don’t belong to the special club to get first choice.

I also think they should virus test every plant sold - they can get the strips much cheaper than we can and if they add the $3-4 strip to the bill that’s fine. I’d rather not bring it into my grow area and if it’s negative, I will be glad to pay for it at cost. Either that or industry standard needs to be if we test and photo the test result with the plant and the bill showing our cost for the test price — then they have to refund the plant cost, shipping, tax, etc. and the virus test at our cost and the return shipping if they want it back. AOS needs to get off their butts and get some industry standards in place in terms of pot sizes, plant sizes and ages, shipping, and a number of other items. I’m so tired of buying a 5” pot for one price thinking I’m getting a larger plant only for it to arrive and it barely would fill a 3” pot it’s so over potted. You can bet I call them as soon as I open the box and advise I’m photographing and sending it back and I want my money back including shipping and I will be reviewing the purchase on-line anywhere I can find that they have no control of. AOS is so far behind the rest of the horticultural world. And don’t seem to care. I use St Augustine Orchid Society for information because it has updated photos, information including treatment names, etc. they are friendly and you don’t have to pay to contact them For help. I also do Smile Amazon for them to get the donation to our favorite charity. It’s not much but if everyone sends to their favorite, it adds up. It doesn’t cost a dime out of my pocket I just have to remember to be on Smile Amazon website where it says my charity pick at the top of the page.

Orchids are the only horticultural or agricultural industry that sells plants before they have been proven to be good plants. Roses, peonies, hostas, Iris, day lilies, and every known plant or seed is culled severely many times before they get to something decent. And culled means burned or composted or ground and trashed. They don’t sell their culls — believe me I have tried and they say they don’t want something to get out connected to them that’s not good. Those plants have to be stable in growing habits; healthy both in flower, leaf, stem and roots; zone hardiness; color and shape; disease resistance, no virus issues, etc.

With orchids, the chances of getting a decent plant is highly iffy and the chances to get something great is almost nil out of buying just one plant. Buy 200 or several flasks — maybe something possibly one or two will be really worth something. And yet orchid vendors know this and yet they keep selling “the mystery” the “you have the only one like it”, “it’s unique to you”. Sorry, I’d rather have a mericlone that looks like what I fell in love with — and if I can buy a division of a hybrid or a mature hybrid after seeing the actual plant and flower - well then fine. But I don’t like surprises. That’s not to say that I won’t buy an entire flask or two to grow out and let bloom, and people pick what they want at that time. I also believe we should be able to buy the plant we want. If a vendor is selling 5-6 plants only of a cross then we should be able to buy first come first serve to pick the one we want. Sure if they have 200 it might be more difficult — but they need to figure out how to divide the various colors and go from there so we can choose the one we want just like if we were standing in their greenhouse. It’s time to catch-up. The technology is there. I reward people who will photograph their plants for me to choose by buying more plants from them. And those that tell me I have to join a VIP club and spend thousands per year to get an opportunity to pick a special or select plant or get the color I want — I don’t buy from again unless it’s something that I really want. And I’m not paying to join some club to get first choice. I’m sorry this is a hobby for most of us and this type of behavior makes it pretty chintzy.

In the meantime. I have started buying from someone like Akatsuka Orchids out of Hawaii that sells mostly mericlones and in mature to bloom within the year (many at $32) or mature in bud or sheath (many at $38). Yes a couple might be higher but they are more special ones. Better yet, 2 day Fed X shipping starts at $23 and is never more than $33. I just got a week or two ago 9 large plants some in sheath, some with lots of leads, several with buds getting ready to open for $33 total. All the way from Hawaii to the East Coast. That was a 41” tall by 21.5” by 8” deep box and a beautiful specially designed with a lift off top too. I don’t know what the single or two plant boxes look like but this would nice and it was multi stickered Live, fragile perishables inside. They don’t ship but Mon.-Wed so it gets to you before the weekend even if the shipper has an unexpected delay. And they answer questions, are friendly and helpful and their site has most of the information you need to buy including photo of the bloom and the whole plant. And we need to start letting each other know who these reputable vendors are.

Many of the vendors I come across want a fortune for shipping whether plants or supplies. Another issue is the profiting off shipping and blaming the shipping companies for high prices. I tried to order plastic net pots — $10-12 for pots and $69 for USPS shipping - 1 state away mind you. I checked the post office using some owned pots and the price was like 9.99 for what I would have bought. They were making $60 profit off those pots. You can imagine I didn’t buy them. I found them cheaper both for the pots and around $13 for shipping. But really, this so called free shipping isn’t free shipping..it’s added to the bottom line (should state shipping included, not free) and since Amazon started it more and more companies are doing it and are making more on shipping than the item they were selling. It’s not right and people are going to be pushed out of gardening or the orchid business altogether. A friend advised this was the case with things she was shipping off Etsy. We go round and round about the morality of it. I don’t mind people making a profit and a decent profit but not a killing. It’s not right. They are taking the item coat and then deciding how much it will cost to ship to the very furthest location from them and adding that to the plant cost. And we all pay that cost whether we live 2 blocks down the street from them or clean to the opposite coast or Hawaii, Alaska, wherever. Again, it’s not right. Not to mention the shipping cost is multiplied over a box of say 6-7 etc instead of your shipping being adjusted. So if they added in $25 to a plant for shipping and the average plant cost is say $35 plus the $25 shipping = $60 x 6 plants = $360 and $150 of it is for shipping and it probably only cost them $35-$40 for shipping. Some are just doubling the plant price which makes it worse, and some are adding in to each plant an additional $10/plant for prep charge or charging it on the top. Not right. Now I will say there are some that fairly pricing the shipping in but they are few and far between. You can tell because their prices per plant make sense.

Then there are those who are taking advantage of the pandemic, the shipping, world affairs, supply chain issues, political, whatever, etc — whatever excuse they can come up to charge -$500 -$1500 more than they were 2 years ago. The same in every business. I looked at water hoses today — $119 for a simple 5/8”, 25’ hose. Was $35 2 years ago. Do they forget some of us have old catalogs or have screenshot things we want to get later? Jeesh! They want to blame whatever they can to up their profits and they don’t care about us. Well without us, they haven’t got a business.

Sorry to get on my soap box but it all just makes me mad.
 

orchid527

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If they are already bloomed why would you not keep them and bloom them again to see the result?
Unless they're diseased, next time you're throwing stuff away...
Eric, I must have not been clear in my original post. These had already bloomed, but they still had a flower or two on the spike. All of the flowers had many defects. They should have been thrown away. If the problem had been that they were just too small or the color was off, I would have grown them for another year. It would have been pointless to invest any more energy, or space, on these dogs. I speak with more than 40 years of experience growing and hybridizing phals, with many AOS awards. Mike
 

orchid527

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Eric, this was the best of the bunch. Thought about documenting the whole bunch but decided it wasn't worth the effort. This photo was still on my phone. The petals are cupped and curled, the lip is deformed and the ventral sepals carry too much lueddemanniana influence. The natural spread was less than 2 inches. The others had more open petals. All of the plants were healthy with good roots. Mike
for st.jpg
 

Carmella.carey

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Eric, this was the best of the bunch. Thought about documenting the whole bunch but decided it wasn't worth the effort. This photo was still on my phone. The petals are cupped and curled, the lip is deformed and the ventral sepals carry too much lueddemanniana influence. The natural spread was less than 2 inches. The others had more open petals. All of the plants were healthy with good roots. Mike
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Wonkey
 
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