'The Scent of Scandal" discussion

[Gcroz]

I finished reading The Scent of Scandal which is a book about the kovachii discovery and resulting legal battle. I highly recommend this book, although I'm sure some members may take issues with some of the contents.

I'd like to start a discussion about this book here! I think that it is a very fair account of the story. I think that it makes a lot of points about the orchid world that are interesting. So let's discuss!

I'll start the discussion with this questions:

Many of you have stated that you believe that you do not tolerate "cheats and liars." However, given the chance to have a plant like PK named after you, wouldn't you take the chance? Is it really so bad what Kovach did?

 

[Rick]

I could see doing it for species conservation or even money, but naming rights is the last thing I'd see worth while to go to jail for.

 

[Eric Muehlbauer]

I'm reading it right now......I'm just at p.103. I love this book....well written, well paced, and I love the descriptions of the characters. I particularly like his descriptions of George Norris and Peter Croezen, whom I haven't met personally but gotten to know through email correspondence ....I'm not expert enough on all of these people to fully judge accuracy, but I do think the author is attempting to be as fair as possible to all of them.

 

[Yoyo_Jo]

I just bought the book this weekend....I'll catch up with you guys after I read it.

 

[Roth]

I should have a look at it, however, as I know the market better than pretty much anyone in this world:

- ALL Paphiopedilum and Phragmipedium described since the 80's came from smugglers. There is no known exception to that absolute rule. After, it was to the botanical gardens or individuals to accept it, and describe it, sustaining their job, the amount of species per year they were describing to sustain their position in some botanical gardens or institutions, or even their position in the orchid world, or to refuse it, and go down to the black sink. Some 'taxonomists' that are very famous only describe new species to attract customers to sell plants. They then make a link between a nursery and the people who contacted them, and take a good profit on the way. I know at least one that earned most of his money like that, and I know it personally.

- Some others ( like phragmipedium peruvianum as an example...) just bought the plants from a collector, and described it afterwards. I do not see, myself, any difference between those two groups of people, except that Kovach brought out the plant to USA, where the others left it in Peru, however both were wild collected by a professional collector... The damage to the wild would be equal in both cases.

- The kovachii was illegally imported to the USA, that's true. If we are talking about psychotic people who care only about paperwork, it is definitely correct. However I do not see, again, any difference between a wild collected plant smuggled, and a wild collected plant precultivated, laundered, then imported with a CITES, like those blooming size kovachii sold in the USA lately.

The damage to the wild is the same, except that it makes CITES look like fools. The problem being too that most people do believe that 'fair and honest' and 'legal' are the same thing, where there is a wide array of shades in between. What is legal ( dozen of tons of wild orchids sent with CITES and all the proper paperwork to China for traditional medicine) is not always fair, and what is fair and ethic in a way (smuggling a plant and propagating it, like all the mexipedium and sanderianum so far...) is not always legal.

- There has never been any kovachii for sale at 10.000USD. At the very same time the plant of kovachii entered Selby, Manuel Arias was offering a new pink phrag for 100USD. All of his customers interested in phrags got his handwritten fax, including me, and many other nurseries. So, unless you took a crazy fool, all the players knew it was easy to buy, and not expensive.

- The only massive collections for trade have been performed by nurseries in Peru and Ecuador, apart from one that landed in Taiwan ( and died, as it was too hot). There has never been big quantities of kovachii in Europe, or Japan, or the USA, 'stored for sale', that's a lie... Now, the quantity brought by Kovach was apparently ridiculous, we are talking about one or maybe a handful of plants, which is way lower than the amount of wild kovachii illegally traded, then legally traded after being laundered, by one famous nursery in Peru... which is funnily respected for their efforts to protect that species. Go figure...

 

[JeanLux]

I should have a look at it, however, as I know the market better than pretty much anyone in this world...

I am still waiting for your book(s) Xavier !!!! All those posts from you that I collected would make up for one of them !!!!! Jean

 

[s1214215]

Wasnt there a book written some time back Xavier, where you were a main character LOL... I have been told this many a time.

I agree with you, way to much Bullsh*t on the fly. I dont know if Kovach was the scoudrel he is played to be, but I will say this. CITES is crap, defunct, and irrellevant in many ways for plants.

I can vouch that CITES in several South East Asian nations in on the take. If are the right person, they will write you a permit for a Cymbidium, when you walked in with a Vanda.

 

[Gcroz]

I could see doing it for species conservation or even money, but naming rights is the last thing I'd see worth while to go to jail for.

I agree, it is probably the least important thing to go to jail for. But as the owner of a small, and growing , nursery I sympathize with Kovach. He also had a small nursery and having a plant such as PK would bring a lot of notoriety to his business. However, based on his actions, the notoriety he got was not what he wanted. He clearly knew what he was doing, but I think that given the opportunity I would have done the same thing. I just would have handled the problems with the government differently.

One topic the book does a good job of bringing to light is the "Catch-22" of CITES and new species. If a slipper, unknown, is discovered, it is illegal to harvest it for taxonomic description or scientific study. You cannot get CITES permits for plants unless you have a name. This makes the whole issue very complicated and unreasonably so. Of course, this makes no loophole for collecting the unnamed species, but it would seem that the plant would be better being "known" to science.

 

[NYEric]

I believe that there are still paph species that have been collected but are not named

 

[Gcroz]

I believe that there are still paph species that have been collected but are not named

I'm sure of it... but it is a shame none the less.

 

[NYEric]

The un-uniform enforcement of the treaties is a big problem. That, plus corruption, plus a lack of plant experience/knowledge is making a farce of CITES.

 

[Candace]

Make a cross and name it after yourself if so inclined. Grow a plant and name the awarded cultivar after yourself. It's kind of a pity one feels their "name" is so important to sully it in such a derogatory manner as Kovach did. Better yet, get over yourself to think your name is so important and noteworthy, anyway. :>

 

[mormodes]

Does anyone think the author got any of it wrong? I think he may have mischaracterized Glen Decker, not that Glen is a central figure in the story by any means I hasten to add. But I just can't think of Glen as a crafty businessman. I always think of him as a nice guy with a big smile on his face. That's the only disjoint in the author's telling of the story that I can think of.

 

[bullsie]

I have not read the book - and presently just don't have the time. But I have to comment regarding the inspection of 'incomming'.

plus a lack of plant experience/knowledge is making a farce of CITES.

Who does the inspecting now? At one time, they were folks trained in that field, but after 9/11 that all changed. All but a handful of inspectors were transfered to homeland security division. All those botanists (and folks who are expert at bugs and probably a few other fields) went from plant/product inspection to people inspection. Their expertise didn't limit inspecting plants and seeds. These folks at one time examined things like pallets and crates (some varieties of wood are illegal to use because they harbor insects - now these same products are blatently used, unloaded daily at US docks).

Wonder why the sudden onslaught of harmful bugs and diseases in this country? Why Homeland Security just didn't train folks for the positions opened instead of taking the experts from their fields of expertise and sending them into a world they absolutely knew nothing about - which they needed trained for - lunacy I suppose comes in all forms.

 

[Gcroz]

Make a cross and name it after yourself if so inclined. Grow a plant and name the awarded cultivar after yourself. It's kind of a pity one feels their "name" is so important to sully it in such a derogatory manner as Kovach did. Better yet, get over yourself to think your name is so important and noteworthy, anyway. :>

This is true. And I would agree that his name is now tarnished forever, or at least as long as people remember what he did. However, I'll say that the major difference is that having a species named for you puts your name down for the scientific future, a hybrid does not necessarily. Second, I think I can relate to the "fever" one might feel when faced with something so spectacular and the chance to possess it, both physically and in name. This, in my opinion, is similar to Gold Fever, Diamond Fever, and Emerald Fever- when faced with something so covetous, otherwise normal, intelligent people can act completely contrary to those traits and to their own well being.

 

[Candace]

This is true. And I would agree that his name is now tarnished forever, or at least as long as people remember what he did. However, I'll say that the major difference is that having a species named for you puts your name down for the scientific future, a hybrid does not necessarily. Second, I think I can relate to the "fever" one might feel when faced with something so spectacular and the chance to possess it, both physically and in name. This, in my opinion, is similar to Gold Fever, Diamond Fever, and Emerald Fever- when faced with something so covetous, otherwise normal, intelligent people can act completely contrary to those traits and to their own well being.

Very well said.

 

[Roth]

This is true. And I would agree that his name is now tarnished forever, or at least as long as people remember what he did.

Not so sure, we have already some species named after people who have been convicted of smuggling orchids, Paphiopedilum henryanum ( Henry Azadehdel), Phragmipedium popowii, blabla ariasii, etc...

In a way, people though in their times that Azadehdel or Kovach are bad. For Azadehdel, the problem has been solved years ago. He sold expensive plants, 'selected' for many of them really, and 'many' according to the ignorant people of that time.

After a while, we realized that Hsu She Hua, from Kowloon, had exported some dozen thousands micranthum, dozen thousands armeniacum, dozen thousands malipoense, countless pleione, cypripedium, paphiopedilum barbigerum... at the same time, where Azadehdel would have smuggled maybe 200-500 armeniacum, Hsu She Hua, and a handful of other nurseries from Taiwan ( including in those days Taida Orchids...) would smuggle at the very same time dozen of thousands of plants.

In the 90's we realized too that Azadehdel was right, he did not collect rothschildianum and sanderianum in any natural preserve. We realized too that, no matter what he did, it was nothing compared to the megawaves of overcollection boosted by the Taiwanese, the Japanese, the Dutches ( pot plant), the Chinese more recently.

Thinking well, Kovach smuggled a few plants, Arias a few hundreds plants, Portilla a few hundreds plants too. Which one is the worst offender

In common, Azadehdel and Kovach names are known by most people in the orchid world. I know a dozen different names that are involved in the same trade at a much larger, industrial scale level, and that no one on this forum knows. In this respect, Kovach was just nuts, and a small guy, but nothing to make all that noise around.

Indeed, there has been no paphiopedilum described recently that was from a really 'clean' origin, none... but we still consider the botanists who described the plants and the owner of the original plants as good guys, where they are not better or worse than Kovach indeed... They had to act the same too, use illegally collected material to describe the plant, all of them, and no exception...Paphiopedilum ooii as an example come from a national park, was smuggled from Sabah to Peninsular Malaysia, and the fresh wild plant used to describe it and name it after the collector's customer. The holotype used to describe it has been smuggled too to... Kew... Where is the difference with kovachii ? there is absolutely none.

 

[NYEric]

I agree. Unfortunately, the "legal" method of collecting is warped!

 

[Gcroz]

I agree. Unfortunately, the "legal" method of collecting is warped!

Thank you Roth, as always you point out interesting things that we in the US may never hear about. Sounds like what we would call "the Wild West" out there in Asian orchid world!

Eric, here is something that I don't feel the book really explained thoroughly and a topic I have not had time to explore. What exactly are the procedure for collecting unnamed slippers for the purposes of describing them? The book describes it as part of my previously mentioned "Catch-22"- you can't get permits unless you have a name, but if the species is unnamed how can you legally get permits?

I assume that there are cases in which plants of new species have been shipped to growers and thus described after the new plant has been found. I think this was the case with Phrag. fischeri. But those events must be a rarity.

 

[NYEric]

You cant transport it across borders unless it's named. It could be described in the country its found in.