The end of the line.

[Mahon]

I see that you added to your last post when I posted mine...

I have not claimed that any research is rock-solid... I have disagreed with most research that has been either conflicting with itself, or it does not make all that much sense. It seems reasonable that if the sun gets hotter, that the earth could get hotter... This thread has also led me to believe other things about how the earth is getting hotter. We know that radioacticity makes things hot (not going into specifics, as it is unimportant)... the Uranium inside the earth's core could be heating up the atmosphere through volcanoes, and possibly releasing radioactivity into the air... also, another factor could be the background radioactivity in the air... radioactive particles (I would assume Alpha radiation from Uranium-235, unless it was from man-made Plutonium) are still falling down to the earth's surface from old test atomic bombs...

-Pat

 

[Mahon]

...you made another addition to your last post...

OK, maybe you didn't get this... at first, it may have been an argument... but now it is a discussion and possibly a debate... I have already lost interest in it all now.

-Pat

 

[kentuckiense]

also, another factor could be the background radioactivity in the air... radioactive particles (I would assume Alpha radiation from Uranium-235, unless it was from man-made Plutonium) are still falling down to the earth's surface from old test atomic bombs...

You honestly have no idea when to quit.

Edit: Oops, looks like you do.

 

[Heather]

I'd like to take this thread in a slightly different direction and talk about fashion - why certain species and hybrids seem to go through peaks and valleys of popularity and ease of location. For a while, it was really hard to find a normal colored venustum. Now it seems easier to find phil. var. roebellinii than a true philiipinense. What about plants like adductum and randsii (which I know is somewhat related to it's resistance to breeding) that are just so hard to locate robust mature plants of. Are people just hoarding them? What about some of the older awarded plants that aren't being used to produce new hybrids anymore...will we just stop seeing plants with roth. 'Rex' in the background someday? An example of this is Lady Isabel made w/ roth 'Bion' x stonei 'Bion'. There were a bunch of people selling the cross a while back, but now it seems to not be as widely available.

Let's discuss!

 

[kentuckiense]

Isn't randsii a pain to grow?

 

[PHRAG]

Heather, that was the original concept I wanted to discuss with the very first post. I think you phrased it much better than I did.

I think it's also interesting to note, that breeders keep "improving" their breeding lines, and as newer plants come into fashion, older crosses which are great in their own right disappear, which I find kind of sad in a way. In some plants, you can see a major gap in between how the wild species is shaped and colored, and the way the newest line breds are shaped and colored.

The reason this is frustrating to me, is because after second and third generation, it becomes nearly impossible to find first generation plants unless someone divides, or releases some that they were hoarding as it were.

 

[littlefrog]

Isn't randsii a pain to grow?

And in my opinion, not terribly attractive to boot...

I don't know that older crosses necessarily become hard to find. For example, I still see people selling flasks of Hanne Popow, when there are plenty of 2nd, third, and maybe fourth generation hybrids available. Paph. St. Swithin, still see flasks. That is just two. I think primary hybrids don't really go out of style (if they are good).

Complex breeding is something else. I collect the weird and old, whenever I can. That kind of thing tends to disappear within a plant generation or two.

 

[dustywoman]

Thanks Heather

Back on track.
For the rest of you, I have enjoyed learning from all of you!

IMHO, this forum has a wonderful blend of great knowledge and wisdom. No matter how young nor how old. It is amazing what the members bring to this forum.

Cannot we build upon each other's inate collective wisdom?

This cause should allow us to transcend our egos and to hopefully let us all
(and I empahsize ALL) figure something out.

 

[PHRAG]

Rob, I think you see more "dissapearing" crosses in species. Newer improved versions of hybrids don't cause the hybrid itself to become unpopular. Or maybe they do, just at a slower rate than species? Hrmm.

And I think in any public situation, there are always going to be conflicting personalities. And there are going to be days when everyone just seems to itch for someone to spar with. I think this is normal, and can be constructive. I think some of the frustration that presented earlier in this thread has been building for some time, and now its had a release.

The thing is, as long as we are all nice enough not to call each other names, this kind of disagreement is welcome here. Free speech and all that. I would hate to see this forum go any other way. At the end of the day, we are all still here and discussing these plants we are all so passionate about. That's the best we can hope for.

 

[gonewild]

I'd like to take this thread in a slightly different direction and talk about fashion - why certain species and hybrids seem to go through peaks and valleys of popularity and ease of location.
Let's discuss!

Heather,
Can you move your new subject to a new thread? I would like to discuss the fashion scene but I don't really want to add on to global warming. A discussion about changing orchid styles will be a good archive subject and it would be nice to have a clean slate to read through. Sorry if asking this is out of line for a newcomer.

 

[Jon in SW Ohio]

I agree, debating ideas and theories despite how ugly it might get has it's positives. I now know more about global warming than I would have ever cared to before this thread. It's like sharpening our mental knives.

Heather I wish I had the answer to your question! So many plants have gone the wayside. It's not a new phenomenon, people used to ignore species paphs in general for the complex hybrids. New blood has brought new ideas of what is ideal, it just takes time for things to happen. Gemstone's Randchild is still one of my all time favorite crosses, and it used to be quite popular, now the only ones I know of are in private collections. I don't think randsii has ever been a common plant in the wild or in collections, and now that it's much harder to import, it will take some doing to remake the old primaries. Plus, remaking these old primaries is a gamble, and you never know what will be all the rage in another decade.

Jon
________
Vaporizer Manufacturer

 

[dustywoman]

Please pay me no heed, but I'm about to say something really stupid. I have absolutely no scientific back up for it. It is just because whenever I am visiting in New York, I get to watch all these movie reruns and the first Jurassic Park has been on alot.

One of the characters says something to the effect that 'life is strong and will continue and will find a way.' I know he was talking about the dinos and the nasty raptors, but I'd like to think it could apply to orchids, too. I would like to think that an orchid species, if reintroduced into the wild, would find a way to survive, despite how far removed the breeding might be from the original. I'd like to believe that these plants have an inate wisdom to continue and that natural selection would get them back into their evolutionary path.

Just my two cents.

 

[Eric Muehlbauer]

Just a note about the sun getting warmer....yes, the output of the sun has been increasing over the last 4.5 b years. It was James Lovelock, in his "Gaia" model of the earth's temperature regulation, who pointed out that it is the continuous "fine tuning" of the CO2 balance in the atmosphere that has maintained global temperatures in the habitable range. The problem comes when the "fine tuning" by plants, phytoplankton, and carbonate shelled marine organisms is thrown off by the release of tons and tons of carbon that had been sequestered for millions of years. And as for plant popularity...I agree, hybrids seem to stick around forever...but it has gotten harder to get normal venustum, even harder to get straight hirsutissimum, and how often does anyone see argus or acmodontum anymore? Take care, Eric

 

[Kyle]

A local company or person buying land for preserves works well as contrasted to outside NGOs. Local people can relate to this as their own progress.

The USA had the same law until some years back. It was called the Homestead Act. When I was younger I recall Canada had the same as well.

Peru has taken this concept a step further and created a program which actually does work for conservation (maybe). In Peru working through INRENA a person or organization can get a concession on a large tract of land for a small annual rental fee. This can be a conservation concession designed to preserve land. So for a relatively small amount of moneya large tract of land can be set aside as a preserve.

I've heard the same about the NGO. Apparently the locals are not to fond of a Nature Conservancy reserve up near Mindo in Ecuador. Which by the way is probably full of orchids. I've only seen it from across a river.

I think the Homestead act in Canada/US had a different purpose. They were to populate the country and to create some type of economy in the new colonies. The same in principal, but the two cultures have different values.

Kyle

 

[gonewild]

=Kyle]I've heard the same about the NGO. Apparently the locals are not to fond of a Nature Conservancy reserve up near Mindo in Ecuador. Which by the way is probably full of orchids. I've only seen it from across a river.

So the same feeling is in Ecuador as I thought might be the case. The NGOs just work with unfullfilled promises. I could cite so many examples.

I think the Homestead act in Canada/US had a different purpose. They were to populate the country and to create some type of economy in the new colonies. The same in principal, but the two cultures have different values.
Kyle

Aw, but is is for the same reason and their true values are the same. The free land is not for the good of the people. It is to solve a problem for the country. It is to conquer the wilderness. It is to colonize (populate) and create economy. The children (grown) of the settlers are the cutters of the wood which drives the economy of the country and feeds the hungry in the cities. The next generation will change from rice and corn to soy. Soy will supply the country with economy.

 

[NYEric]

OK people, I've tried to stay away from this thread as long as possible, but now I'm going to throw my 2 cents in. First of all, I'm as interested in ecology, conservation, and protecting the environment as any left-wing, Ivy educated minority child of the 60's. However, some people imply that human interaction is alien or un-natural. Whether or not you believe in a God or Nature or Gaia, you should believe that humans, along with their capacity to build and create destructive devices, are part of the planets system. No matter how destructive, mankinds interactions are part of a nutural selection. [Sure, for some species-wrong place, wrong time.] I just hope the people who influence social and economic factors realize that something should be done to protect the environment because the resources wont last without the help.

 

[gonewild]

OK people, I've tried to stay away from this thread as long as possible, but now I'm going to throw my 2 cents in. First of all, I'm as interested in ecology, conservation, and protecting the environment as any left-wing, Ivy educated minority child of the 60's. However, some people imply that human interaction is alien or un-natural. Whether or not you believe in a God or Nature or Gaia, you should believe that humans, along with their capacity to build and create destructive devices, are part of the planets system. No matter how destructive, mankinds interactions are part of a nutural selection. [Sure, for some species-wrong place, wrong time.] I just hope the people who influence social and economic factors realize that something should be done to protect the environment because the resources wont last without the help.

You have 2 very good cents. I agree.

 

[SlipperFan]

OK people, I've tried to stay away from this thread as long as possible, but now I'm going to throw my 2 cents in. First of all, I'm as interested in ecology, conservation, and protecting the environment as any left-wing, Ivy educated minority child of the 60's. However, some people imply that human interaction is alien or un-natural. Whether or not you believe in a God or Nature or Gaia, you should believe that humans, along with their capacity to build and create destructive devices, are part of the planets system. No matter how destructive, mankinds interactions are part of a nutural selection. [Sure, for some species-wrong place, wrong time.] I just hope the people who influence social and economic factors realize that something should be done to protect the environment because the resources wont last without the help.

And so we come back to the November elections in the US...

 

[Heather]

And so we come back to the November elections in the US...

Amen to that!

 

[slippertalker]

I wouldn't hold my breath on any quick solutions....and this is more than just a USA problem. Nature has its ways of handling dominant species that are out of control.