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Staminodium Question - Megastaminodium

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Hakone

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How large and how wide is called staminodium , Megastaminodium ?


Example, staminodale large::

- Armeniacum : 1 to 2 cm long , 1 to 1,5 cm wide

- Vietnamense : 1,5 to 2 cm long and wide

- Malipoense : 1,3 to 1,4 cm long , 1,2 to 1,3 cm wide

- Canhii : 1,2 to 1,6 cm long , 1,2 to 1,3 cm wide , another Source : 1, 2 cm long , 1 cm wide

thank you very much
 
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goldenrose

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Hmmm ...... personally I think it's a bit unnecessary, the measurements speak for themselves. Don't we have enough terminology & confusion in the orchid world as it is?
 

Hakone

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Hmmm ...... personally I think it's a bit unnecessary, the measurements speak for themselves. Don't we have enough terminology & confusion in the orchid world as it is?
In „ Paphiopedilum subgen. Megastaminodium Braem et O.Gruss, 2011, Ochid Digest, 3: 164. „

How should I understand over the word Megastaminodium?. Please explanation, what this means?
 
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Marc

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I think it's easy.

You listed a couple of species with the dimensions of thier stami, however if you take into account these dimension and take the size of the actual flower into account they aren't that big.

canhii however is a completely different story as it has the biggest stami in relation to the flower size.
 

Shiva

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You have to consider the size of the staminode to the flower itself, not to other staminodes on other flowers.
For instance, if I stood under a wing of a Cessna plane, I would look far larger than if I stood under an Airbus 380. That seems simple enough to me.
 

Hakone

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You have to consider the size of the staminode to the flower itself, not to other staminodes on other flowers.
For instance, if I stood under a wing of a Cessna plane, I would look far larger than if I stood under an Airbus 380. That seems simple enough to me.
Do you mean about optical deception? In the Science ?

Which is the definition from Megastaminodium ?

Is there a definition?
 

Hakone

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I think it's easy.

You listed a couple of species with the dimensions of thier stami, however if you take into account these dimension and take the size of the actual flower into account they aren't that big.

canhii however is a completely different story as it has the biggest stami in relation to the flower size.
You think Staminode : Flower Correlation ?

How is with thaianum Staminode: Flower Correlation ?

in fact the measures are very clear.
 

Rick

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If you want some type of absolute numerical explanation then put it in terms of ratio of staminode dimension to pouch dimension.

This is the same as what Marc and Shiva are saying except in math terms instead of relative descriptive language.

I think you are being silly and just trying to start an argument to try to fit the megastamodium title into a single absolute numerical definition of the word.
 

Kevin

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Do you mean about optical deception? In the Science ?

Which is the definition from Megastaminodium ?

Is there a definition?
Are you asking about the 'Mega' part? I would guess that was used, as has been said, to make a point that the obvious feature of the species (or section) is the staminode, not that it is exceptionally large, persay. Regardless of the actual measurements, what is the first thing you see when you see the flower of this species? I think the name fits. You make a good point, though, as what does Megastaminodium actually mean, and what criteria are there if new species are found? What would the ratio between staminode and flower have to be for the species to be put into this section? Or are there other criteria? Maybe Braem and Gruss would be best to answer this?
 

Hakone

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. Regardless of the actual measurements, what is the first thing you see when you see the flower of this species? I think the name fits. You make a good point, though, as what does Megastaminodium actually mean, and what criteria are there if new species are found? What would the ratio between staminode and flower have to be for the species to be put into this section? Or are there other criteria? Maybe Braem and Gruss would be best to answer this?
comme il faut
 

Hakone

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If you want some type of absolute numerical explanation then put it in terms of ratio of staminode dimension to pouch dimension.

This is the same as what Marc and Shiva are saying except in math terms instead of relative descriptive language.

I think you are being silly and just trying to start an argument to try to fit the megastamodium title into a single absolute numerical definition of the word.
- is the taxonomie a science ?

- is there in science a subjective opinion without proofs and/or Investigation ?
 

Hakone

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Are you asking about the 'Mega' part? I would guess that was used, as has been said, to make a point that the obvious feature of the species (or section) is the staminode, not that it is exceptionally large, persay. Regardless of the actual measurements, what is the first thing you see when you see the flower of this species? I think the name fits.
- Is optical deception to qualify a taxonomisch criteria ?. the petals of canhii are very small therefore comes to optical deception .

- How about Micropetalum ????
 

labskaus

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It is a bit sad that you haven't realized that the topic you're raising is not a taxonomy one.
 
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Kavanaru

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It is a bit sad that you haven't realized that the topic you're raising is not a taxonomy one.
what I think is even more sad is that for someone who claims to have read many many paper/articles, and have had a lot of people explaining things (he should already know), Hakone still does not understand the subjects he wants to discuss... next step should be: learn the real meaning of Science, Taxonomy, Nomenclature, and Horticulture (not only the definition in the dictionnary, but the real meanings and implications), and their diferences.
 

Hakone

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what I think is even more sad is that for someone who claims to have read many many paper/articles, and have had a lot of people explaining things (he should already know), Hakone still does not understand the subjects he wants to discuss... next step should be: learn the real meaning of Science, Taxonomy, Nomenclature, and Horticulture (not only the definition in the dictionnary, but the real meanings and implications), and their diferences.
Hello Karavanu,

please answer the Kevin´s Questionen :

what does Megastaminodium actually mean, and what criteria are there if new species are found? What would the ratio between staminode and flower have to be for the species to be put into this section?

thank you very much
 
E

Ernie

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I'll bite...

"Megastaminodium" translates roughly to "large staminode".

So yes, the translation doesn't quite compute if you look at the staminodes of the species mentioned in relation to canhii.

The other side of the coin is... does that make it a "bad" name choice? I don't think so. The name is quite descriptive and it's not the name that matters so much as the description and diagnosis. Odd but true. Think Paph micranthum and the big guy down at the pub named "Tiny".
 

Hakone

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Hello Ernie,

thank you very much your explanation .

"Megastaminodium" translates roughly to "large staminode".

How large ?

Armeniacum – vietnamense – malipoense – canhii

Who has large staminode?
 
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