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Specied varietal naming

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IdahoOrchid

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I kind of understand how hybrids get theirs, but how do species rate getting a varietal name?

Maybe an explanation of both so similarities and contrasts can be compared?
 

Tony

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Do you mean varietal name like philippinense var. laevigatum, or varietal as in clonal name, like Maudiae 'The Queen'? If you mean clonal name, then you can give any name you like to your plant as long as it doesn't have one already. If you mean it in the first sense, then I would post in the taxonomy forum and let the experts answer.
 

Heather

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Tony said:
...or varietal as in clonal name, like Maudiae 'The Queen'? If you mean clonal name, then you can give any name you like to your plant as long as it doesn't have one already.
Generally, you do that when the variety is awarded. For instance, if I had my rothschildianum (Rex x Mont Millais) awarded, I could name it rothschildianum 'Aphrodite' FCC/AOS (lol, yeah right...) The person who had 'Rex' awarded and 'Mont Millais' awarded, named them as such. If I had one awarded an HCC, it would be 'Aphrodite' HCC/AOS and would be that until the award was upgraded to AM/AOS or FCC/AOS.

At least that's the way I understand it?
 
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gore42

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A cultivar name (that is, the name that's in single quotes) can be given to any plant at any time by anyone who owns a plant, unless the plant already has a name, in which case it's pretty dishonest. But they all get a name when they're awarded.

I usually name my plants when I use them in breeding, regardless of whether they have been awarded, just so that I can keep track of them.

- Matthew Gore
 

SlipperFan

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But IdahoOrchid asked about varietal names. I assume that means such as philippinense var. laevigatum. That's a good question, which I've wondered about myself.

Anyone know?
 

Rick

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SlipperFan said:
But IdahoOrchid asked about varietal names. I assume that means such as philippinense var. laevigatum. That's a good question, which I've wondered about myself.

Anyone know?
I think it happens when a plant (or more likely a population of plants) gets discovered in the wild and submitted for taxonomic verification. Its ends up too close to a presently described species to warrant new species status, but different enough to be distingushed as a regional variant of said species. Since I very rarely see the term subspecies used in orchid nomenclature the term (var) may be synomous with subsp. or this is even a step lower than subspecies.
 

likespaphs

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my cent and a half ('cause i ain't sure but...) if you are the first to publish a description of it, you can name it.
 

SlipperFan

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likespaphs said:
my cent and a half ('cause i ain't sure but...) if you are the first to publish a description of it, you can name it.
I think that's true of species. Is it also true of varieties? Or do taxonomists determine if something is a variety?
 

kentuckiense

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SlipperFan said:
I think that's true of species. Is it also true of varieties? Or do taxonomists determine if something is a variety?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the taxos get to determine the varieties.

Fun fact (well, I think it's a fact. Correct me if I'm wrong):
If it is determined that a group of a species should actually be elevated to varietal rank (IE: Phragmipedium besseae var. d'alassandroi), then an autonym is created for the group of plants that is associated with the type specimen. So when var. d'alassandroi was created, so was var. besseae automatically.

So now we have:
Phragmipedium besseae var. d'alessandroi
Phragmipedium besseae var. besseae

Of course, that's just an example to explain the point. Some say d'al should and is a species of its own.
 
I

IdahoOrchid

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Thanks for all the discussion on this topic. My question was directed mainly on the name that goes into the single quotes. Most closely as Heather described. It seems a bit broad to allow just anyone to name their species whatever they want to, that is why I asked if there was some sort of procedure or 'policy' in determining how, when or where. After being awarded seems to be the most logical, of course.

I guess I could ask at the AOS or RHS site, but you guys are a lot more fun.
 
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gore42

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IdahoOrchid,

The cultivar name (such as Phrag. Eric Young 'Rocket Fire', where 'Rocket Fire' is the cultivar or clonal name) refers ONLY to a single plant (and divisions of it), when we're talking about slippers orchids. With Phals and other species that have been cloned and are genetically identical, they also keep the same name, just like divisions.

So, you get to name your own plant, just like you get to name your own dog or cat. There's nothing too special about that. The only reason that cultivar names get well known is if the plant is bred and it's included on the tag of the offspring, or if the plant gets awarded and the name gets published with the award. Obviously, if a plant is awarded, the whole species doesn't get an award, just the single plant... so a name needs to be published for it so that that particular plant can be differentiated from the rest of the plants of that species.

So, what you name your plant is not regulated by AOS or RHS rules, but if you get the plant awarded, then they may not publish the name if it's profane or already taken, etc.

- Matthew Gore
 

gonewild

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Naming a clone can be important even if the plant is not awarded or used in breeding.

An example:
Suppose you have a plant and divide it into 3 pieces. A few years from now one of the pieces gets an award. You need to be able to know which the other 2 pieces are because they and their respective divisions also get the award status. If you gave one away or sold one, the new owner's plant would be the same clone.

You can name your plants when you divide them or you can give them a code number which in a sense is a name. You can change the name later if it gets an award. But avoid using names that someone else has already or may easily use for an awarded plant. For example you could use a name like Phrag. besseae 'IdahoOrchid#3' and give each plant divided from it the same name.

Keeping track of divisions is important.
 
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Bob Wellenstein

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Actually, while of course you can call your plants whatever you want, there are, unless changed in the last couple of years, several rules as to what is acceptable beyond the obvious of being offensive.
 

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