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Some Paphs from RHS London Orchid Show

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Elena

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I found the show a little disappointing, not a lot of things caught my eye so I didn't bother taking many photos but here are just a couple of things

This one didn't have a name but it looks a lot like hangianum x bellatulum crossed that I've seen on ebay



A huge Paph Leeanum covered in flowers





And I think the following were part of Ratcliffe display





I was very restrained and only bought Den Stardust 'Firebird' which is covered in flowers and buds and a huge Sc Canhamiana coerulea which appears to be in sheath. Both were on my wishlist rather than impulse buys.

I also saw a Phrag besseae flavum for sale. It was was teeny, with a slightly wonky flower and I only noticed it at the end when I didn't have enough cash any more, it was £40 ($80). Peruflora were selling Phrag kovachii plants for £120-£150 ($240-300) :eek: Is that a normal price?
 
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mccallen

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Peruflora were selling Phrag kovachii plants for £120-£150 ($240-300) :eek: Is that a normal price?
Yeah, that's about what they were going for at the POE in San Francisco this month. Expensive, but the plants were certainly much larger than any others I've seen offered in a similar price range.

They also had some cute little Hsinying Helen (or some other helenae x cochlo?) for much cheaper...
 
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Elena

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Yup, I've no idea how big kovachii plants get but those seemed to be a good size. Looks like I shall be waiting for a few years still :poke:
 

Roth

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I found the show a little disappointing, not a lot of things caught my eye so I didn't bother taking many photos but here are just a couple of things
I also saw a Phrag besseae flavum for sale. It was was teeny, with a slightly wonky flower and I only noticed it at the end when I didn't have enough cash any more, it was £40 ($80). Peruflora were selling Phrag kovachii plants for £120-£150 ($240-300) :eek: Is that a normal price?
According to my experience, the main problem is that the number of breeders in Europe is extremely low to nearly nonexistent for paphs. There are at most 5 people who make hybrids on a commercial scale, 2 for pot-plant trade.

Phrag besseae flavum, they all come now, without exception, from the same selfing. Few seeds germinated, and they were proliferated, so there are 10 cultivars at most around in Europe. Buy a very nice plant from any supplier, fair to low price, and that's done. I did make some besseae flavum with different parentage, but they are at least 3-4 growths by now.

Kovachii at 120£ that's expensive. Peruflora was offering to Germany blooming size precultivated plants for US$50 a couple of years ago... I guess those are "divisions" ?
 
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Elena

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Just out of interest, what's considered to be a fair price for a bess flavum? This one was tiny plant in a 2-3 inch pot, it had a flowering growth and a couple of new starts. The vendor was asking £40
 
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mccallen

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Kovachii at 120£ that's expensive. Peruflora was offering to Germany blooming size precultivated plants for US$50 a couple of years ago... I guess those are "divisions" ?

blooming size kovachii for US$50!?!?!?!?!
:mad:

I would say we are still a few years away from legitimate mature kovachii for that price in America. The world just isn't fair.
 

Roth

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I guess that pretty much sums who the smuggler is?
There was so much trouble already about that new species that really no one touched those plants... The plants were to be exported by Arias himself, I even got a handwritten fax at that time to offer those phrags new species with big pink flower.

Some years later, another very famous Ecuador nursery went to Vaucelles show in France, and offered to some hobbyists kovachii cultivated for EUR 120/growth. The South American sellers quite frequently have some for sale on preorder, but that's all. No local professionnal in Europe would stock something like that right now.

blooming size kovachii for US$50!?!?!?!?!
:mad:

I would say we are still a few years away from legitimate mature kovachii for that price in America. The world just isn't fair.
The locals sells them for US$3-5 wholesale.

That's a funny thing about kovachii. Apart from a quite large batch in Taiwan, and some 50-100 plants here and there in Japan and the USA, no one ever dared to stock that species, except in Peru and Ecuador, where huge stocks still are available, precultivated. Most of the plants ended up dying without sales. But one has to remember first many were used for pot plant locally, and second, they cost nothing to the collectors, so they still collected big quantity just in case, and to have stock, shall a customer come tomorrow.

I see already some not too clever people that wil ltell that anyway, if the collectors did not sell, they would not collect again. Wrong. They sell the plants with the beautiful bloom for pot-plant to the local customers, they are still to be seen on some markets. Just the foreigners do not have access, and have to pay extortion price to get small crappy seedlings in flask. That's why Arias as well did not try to sell that much the wild plants before ( I guess he will sell a lot of divisions from his stocks, but I do not have anythin against, technically...). Stupid foreigners would pay 30$/seedling ! Can you believe it ?:drool::drool::drool::drool:

It is funny to note that hangianum as an example did not make that much fuss when discovered and many people stored wild collected plants.

I discovered that in Viet Nam. We think that people will have ' commercial lessons', because we are in USA or Europe, with specific thinkings.

The countryside people from all around the world will think,

"OK I did not sell that item for the last 1 year. But IF someone comes, I cannot catch his money for that item, so I MUST have stock available."

I have seen this with helenae, except for the pot-plant trade, where the boxes go straight through 2 suppliers. All the others nurseries will stock few thousands plants all the time, that die in a month or two, because "IF" someone comes and "IF" someones wants to buy, they do not have that item in stock, therefore cannot catch the money of that "someone".

The rules are completely different. The educated people will think that an item that is unsaleable is not worth stocking, others will stock it in case. They hate not to be able to take all the money from the customer... and if they do not have the stock, they cannot take that wonderful, shiny, money !

That's why as well they still collect delenatii by the thousands as fast, and as many as they can. This morning, the rate at the "stock countryside market" for delenatii is 1000$/500kg. There is nearly no market, but when a customer wants to get 500 kg ( maybe 10 people in Dalat have about 2-3 tons right now available, each of them !), one of the sellers will make 1000$... That's the way they think. Most delenatii end up composted in the field actually, but some still make a little bit of money. I had the same experience in several others countries, and that's what happens to kovachii. Some locals collect and store "just in case"... When they die after a month, they collect more, because maybe big bucks come tomorrow, "just in case"
 

rdlsreno

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Sorry to hear that but the pictures are nice. Thanks for posting.

Ramon:)
 

smartie2000

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Beautiful plants there Elena!

such sad stories of plant losses you tell Sanderianum. If it is all true then this really makes me wonder if CITES made things better or worse. They might as well allow nurseries to import wild plants legally (with limits) if they are dying in such situations anyway so there would be less death.
(the villagers would go nuts if they knew how much I paid for a single kovachii seedling!)
 

JeanLux

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Just out of interest, what's considered to be a fair price for a bess flavum? This one was tiny plant in a 2-3 inch pot, it had a flowering growth and a couple of new starts. The vendor was asking £40

Very good pict. Elena!! I was offered a besseae flavum with flower 2 years ago for 40 Euro at a belgium show, and was stupid enough not to buy it! Jean
 

Tom499

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Some great Paph photos, I wish I could of gone.

I hope to go the Peterborough show though, its closer to home :)
 
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Elena

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Very good pict. Elena!! I was offered a besseae flavum with flower 2 years ago for 40 Euro at a belgium show, and was stupid enough not to buy it! Jean
Oooh, for 40 euro I would have bought it and then walked home :rollhappy:

Tom, Peterborough is well worth a visit, we went last year. It's in the middle of the field, it was raining and muddy, we spend a fortune but still had a great time. A lot of international vendors accept pre-orders which is a great way to get some fantastic plants.
 

NYEric

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Thanx for posting Elena. I guess the grower used light to force the small plant to bloom. $80 for a blooming besseae flavum is not too outrageous but it would have to be a decent size plant. A 2 growth breeder here goes for $150.
 
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Elena

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That's Eric, that's good to know in case I see another one. The colour sure was pretty.
 

shakkai

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Elena, Nice photos!!

If I'm not mistaken, I saw a kovachii in flask at Equatorial Plants. It was £45 and snapped up quickly.
 
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isaias m rolando

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What a shame for everybody. Growers, CITES authorities everywhere and hobbiests...
There is no way to compete with the illegal market. If people is offering/selling/buying what we have clearly defined as illegal material...is up to everybody`s feelings...
And there is no way to say PK offered from an ecuadorian vendor is legal, it has never been cultivated, it has always been stollen from the habitat. I quote again that there are police reports of the constant smugling of PK trgouh the Peru-Ecuador borders...
 

Kyle

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Will either of you two name the Ecuadorian vendor in question?

Kyle
 

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