Sick? No ID, multifloral paphiopedilums

Discussion in 'Paphiopedilum' started by Amber Midyette, Oct 1, 2019.

Slippertalk Orchid Forum

Help Support Slippertalk Orchid Forum:

  1. Oct 1, 2019 #1

    Amber Midyette

    Amber Midyette

    Amber Midyette

    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just got these on eBay today. They do not look too great to me. I have never grown them before and have only just started growing orchids a year ago. Can anyone let me know if they are okay and if they aren't, what is wrong? There are three different species. The one with the patterned red markings, is the one I am most concerned about. Is it a virus?
    I did pour hydrogen peroxide all over them before potting.
    Also, I plan to keep them inside near an Eastern window with shade from other orchids, that area has a humidity of 40 to 50%. I do realize I have them in a very chunky mix but sphagnum Moss is present throughout the media. Should I sit them in water?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Oct 1, 2019 #2

    Ray

    Ray

    Ray

    Orchid Iconoclast

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,145
    Likes Received:
    80
    Location:
    Oak Island NC
    They look like they have been getting less-than-adequate care and conditions - underwatered/possibly overfed/not repotted often enough/left standing wet/etc. - but the damage is done, so if you give them decent care, there may not be a big issue going forward.

    I would not bother with hydrogen peroxide. That is a topical cleaner only, won't help with anything in the photos, but will leave the plants with water i=on them, and invitation for more fungi.
     
    BrucherT and Amber Midyette like this.
  3. Oct 1, 2019 #3

    ehanes7612

    ehanes7612

    ehanes7612

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    4,269
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    seattle, wa
    Those look horrible...hope you got them cheap and gave the seller a negative review. The next question is how the roots look? These plants will have a very difficult time if the roots are dried out and hollowish to the touch (as I suspect).
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
    Amber Midyette likes this.
  4. Oct 1, 2019 #4

    Amber Midyette

    Amber Midyette

    Amber Midyette

    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Ray. You have given me hope when I had so very little, lol.
    I will try my best.
     
  5. Oct 1, 2019 #5

    Amber Midyette

    Amber Midyette

    Amber Midyette

    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah, they do look pretty bad. All the roots on one were dead except one. The other's roots seemed firm but they were few. I paid 30 something a piece for them. I'm not sure if that is cheap or not for paphs. I've already contacted the seller with pictures. Hopefully they will reply tomorrow.
     
  6. Oct 1, 2019 #6

    ehanes7612

    ehanes7612

    ehanes7612

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    4,269
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    seattle, wa
    Well, if the roots look bad they will need strong humidity (around 70%) as they wont be able to soak up water until the roots grow back. Keeping the roots wet is the opposite of what you want to do (as this will give rot a stronghold), you actually want them to stay fairly dry until the new roots grow in...don't use a standing water tray. I would suggest giving them minimal light for the next six months also. Also, keep them away from your other plants...these guys are ripe for attracting bugs you dont want (mealy, scale, mites, etc) that will jump on your other plants. Actually, the best place for them might be your bathroom...dont worry about enough light as they wont be able to do much photosynthesis for awhile (the ambient light in the bathroom would be as much as they could utilize anyway)...you just want them to be able to use their carbohydrate stores as optimally as possible as they really cant make anymore of their own food right now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
    Amber Midyette likes this.
  7. Oct 1, 2019 #7

    Ozpaph

    Ozpaph

    Ozpaph

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    14,890
    Likes Received:
    99
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    They look like imported plants and a bit dehydrated. I dont think they are too far gone.
    Where are you? and where did they come from (location)?
    Good hydration/ humidity as above.
     
  8. Oct 1, 2019 #8

    Amber Midyette

    Amber Midyette

    Amber Midyette

    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you so much. I think I'll keep them in the garage for now. The humidity is way higher in there, I think 70% or more. I always keep a garage door open during the day but I'll make sure they are more in the darker shade for now
     
  9. Oct 1, 2019 #9

    Amber Midyette

    Amber Midyette

    Amber Midyette

    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    They came from a nursery in Melbourne, Florida. The listing stated they had too many of these paphs and wanted to make room for other things, I believe.
    They just messaged me back and stated-
    New message from: tropicalworld (2,041[​IMG])
    It will disappear in lower humidities. I am not sure what it is, but it appears mainly in the rainey summer months as the paphs are grown under shade cloth not under plastic. Just cut it off if worried about it. We have seen no harm come from it. Think it may be a bacteria that shows up here in the warmer months.

    I'm in west Pembroke pines, Florida just above Miami area.
     
  10. Oct 1, 2019 #10

    NYEric

    NYEric

    NYEric

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    47,067
    Likes Received:
    74
    Location:
    New York City Apartment
    If you have or can get dragon's blood, treat the leaves with that. Put them in a mix of sphagnum moss and perlite and keep it moist so the roots can grow. Good luck.
     
    Amber Midyette likes this.
  11. Oct 1, 2019 #11

    Amber Midyette

    Amber Midyette

    Amber Midyette

    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you NYEric, I've never heard of that. I'll have to look it up. In the meantime, I sprayed them down with neem oil. I'm suspecting a fungal infection called cercospora.
     
  12. Oct 1, 2019 #12

    Amber Midyette

    Amber Midyette

    Amber Midyette

    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have copper fungicide too, but I'm not sure if it will be too harsh or not.
     
  13. Oct 1, 2019 #13

    BrucherT

    BrucherT

    BrucherT

    ST Supporter ST Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2017
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Chicago
    I’ve seen that ad and been curious about it too but nothing is labeled, it’s species mixed surf random hybrids, my understanding is they’re grown outdoors basically as bedding plants and have proliferated. I have been getting Paphs in crap condition and nursing them to learn. The big multiflorals really are TOUGH plants. They can take a licking. Whatever Ray says, DO. Every piece of advice he’s given me or that I’ve seen here has been spot on. I am surprised he didn’t mention his KelpMax magical root-stimulating elixir.
     
    Amber Midyette likes this.
  14. Oct 1, 2019 #14

    Amber Midyette

    Amber Midyette

    Amber Midyette

    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's why I bought them. I was excited about being surprised by the blooms and the fact that they were grown in Florida.
    I plan to one day order a flask of long petaled multiflorals and raise them to sell, so I hope this will be a good first start for my learning experience.
    Oh wow! I did not realize this Ray is the one who makes kelpmax. I already have a bottle of it, ;).
     
  15. Oct 1, 2019 #15

    Guldal

    Guldal

    Guldal

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    177
    Location:
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Hello Amber

    I wouldn't have been happy to receive plants in a condition like the ones in your photos - no matter what I paid for them! I would have raised hell for the seller, and asked him to take the plants back and give me a refund!

    I think his reply to your inquiry is not at all curteous, verging on being downrigth rude. He seems to minimize the pity state of the plants, where he should have been so ashamed of himself, selling plants in that condition, whatever the price. It's difficult not to think, that he is trying to take advantage of you not (yet) being an experienced grower. Either he is a crook or an unprofessional disgrace to his profession - and I don't know, which I would consider the worst of those two?

    The leaf in the 2nd photo would make me worry about a possible infestation with mites - so do the leaf in photo 5 (although the burned tip also, and maybe more likely, could be the result of a too generously applied fertilizer). In your shoes, I wouldn't let the plants close to other plants, before I had inspected them very closely with a botanical magnifying glass to make sure, that nothing were crawling around on the leaves, that I could not detect with the naked eye.

    Does anybody have an idea of what the dark spots on the underside of the leaf in photo 8 are - or are a result of?!

    If photo 9 is the upperside of the same leaf, it seems to be something permeating the structure of the leaf. I have zilch, specific experience with viruses in paphs - maybe someone more experienced could elucidate us, and hopefully invalidate, that this is not the result of Orchid fleck, Tobacco mosaic virus - or some other 'ornamental' virus?!

    I understand the thrill and fun about not knowing exactly, what the plants, that you have bought, actually are, before you see them bloom - but I am afraid, that you in this case might have got more than you bargained for on your hands (both literally and figuratively speaking). I'm concerned, that your learning experience might turn out to be a bitter one, as it's always the best idea to start off with goodlooking, healthy plants. When you have a lot of experience, you can with much more self-assurance embark on rescue missions.

    As you've probably detected my initial reaction was: SEND THEM BACK NOW!

    With that said, let's hope, that Ray with all his long experience is right, and that the plants have only suffered due to neglect and malcare - and, God knows, maybe with your tender love and care, they might in the due course of time recover and start to thrive!

    Kind regards, Jens
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
    musa, troy and Amber Midyette like this.
  16. Oct 1, 2019 #16

    Amber Midyette

    Amber Midyette

    Amber Midyette

    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you Jens. Your observations are very much appreciated.
    I know it's silly, but I don't want to give them up. Maybe, if I correctly diagnose the circular reddish brown marks and send proof, they might offer a refund. That is what I'm going to try to do.
    I'll keep them away from other plants for a few months, either in the bathroom or garage. I sprayed them down with bonide neem oil earlier today so I hope after a few treatments any pest will be taken care of.
    Pictures 8 and 9 are the bottom and upper side of the same leaf. I'm hoping it is a fungus rather than a virus. As far as I know there isn't much you can do for a virus. Do you know anything about cercospora? I do have a copper fungicide spray, but I don't want to use it just yet.
    If they perish, I will be sad, but I'll buy more and try again. I am hooked.
     
  17. Oct 1, 2019 #17

    Ray

    Ray

    Ray

    Orchid Iconoclast

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,145
    Likes Received:
    80
    Location:
    Oak Island NC
    Amber - Consider treating the plants with Concentric Ag's Inocucor Garden Solution. It is a probiotic that contains more than a dozen live beneficial bacteria and fungi that kill pathogens, exude antibiotics to preclude future infections, and stimulate growth. The product is also a curative, but it is not sold that way so that they don't require EPA registration.

    It is also currently on sale at 25% off.
     
    Amber Midyette likes this.

Share This Page

arrow_white