Should I self the kovachii I just got awarded?

[Rick]

When I said "they drop dead without making a tuber", I meant that the whole plant dies without producing any new vegetative growths, which they should and normally do in habitat; but, often don't in cultivation. While each rosette of leaves follows a monocarpic-like life cycle, the individual clone does not....normally.

Plants locked up with K can't readily produce new growths. High K keeps the plant from uptaking Ca, Mg, PO4 and a host of micro metal nutrients needed for new growth. Disa in habitat come from very impoverished conditions, so when we feed them like monocarpic cultivated corn I would not expect them to support cyclical perenial growth patterns in the GH.

An old bloomed Phrag growth's only function is to support the new growths.

They gotta produce capsules sometimes though??

 

[John M]

I started a thread last week on whether or not capsules draw negatively from the plant.

I aggree with Johnboy and Berthold that if the plant survives flowering, capsule formation is a drop in the bucket.

Orchid seed has no nutrient store added to it (like corn seed), and the capsule walls themselves are photosynthesising just like leaves (making chemical energy).

I think that plants "stressing out" from blooming and seeding is just another symptom of K overdose.

If the roots are good on this plant, I would self it, but then knock down the standard high K fertilizer and start beefing up Ca and Mg fertilization (if that's the normal regime for this plant now). . Even better if there's a new growth start already.

You may also consider adding a kelp extract to the mix. This could shift the plants hormonal balance to encourage new growth with the capsule formation.

Hey Rick! Now you've gone and thrown a new spanner in the mix. But, I like your point. It may very well be true that plants that "stress out" in our care do so because of a nutrient imbalance, especially excessive K. Hmmmm? Goof food for thought! Thanks!
However, a small/young plant is still not going to have as much energy reserves as a large one. Blooming/producing seeds is the whole point of any plant's existence. A plant that has poor roots, is very young, or otherwise fragile, etc., could bloom itself to death if allowed to complete the reproductive hormone cycle (by carrying a capsule to maturity, vs. having that interrupted mid way). Disas can be brought to bloom in less than 2 years from sowing the seed. These early blooming plants typically immediately die without ever trying to reproduce vegetatively. There is no energy left. Even though they were healthy and a good size, they were too young and weak to both produce the flowers/seeds as well as have energy leftover to make a tuber or side shoots. These otherwise healthy plants "choose" to sacrifice themselves for the sake of creating a future generation. However, an older, stronger plant can both bloom/set seeds and make tubers and offshoots.

In the case of this Phrag, it's really difficult for any of us to determine if it is wise to make it carry a capsule because we haven't the benefit of being able to closely examine the plant...In fact, I've not even seen a photo of the plant. I just know that it's a first time blooming seedling and I'm assuming that it's still got room to mature. Because of it's value, both real and sentimental, it'd be a shame if it died. That's why I tried to discourage Jerry from selfing it just now.

 

[John M]

Plants locked up with K can't readily produce new growths. High K keeps the plant from uptaking Ca, Mg, PO4 and a host of micro metal nutrients needed for new growth. Disa in habitat come from very impoverished conditions, so when we feed them like monocarpic cultivated corn I would not expect them to support cyclical perenial growth patterns in the GH.

So, it's not just the lack of Ca and Mg etc., it's also the excess of K that causes problems. You've giving me new ideas about how to grow my Disas! Thanks!

They gotta produce capsules sometimes though??

Yes of course. That happens BEFORE they become OLD, BLOOMED growths.

 

[SlipperFan]

According to the News hybrids consume less energy.

:rollhappy:

 

[jhoff]

Ok, so I think I can make the decision on whether to self it or not I have enough input on that at this point Could someone answer my other questions? Does it need to be pollinated when the flower is very fresh like besseae or can I wait / enjoy it a bit longer? Does anyone know approx how long the capsule takes to mature? My flasker likes dry seed...

 

[gonewild]

Does it need to be pollinated when the flower is very fresh like besseae or can I wait / enjoy it a bit longer?

Alfredo Manrique pollinates the flowers very quickly. But I don't know if that is because it is necessary.

 

[Rick]

So, it's not just the lack of Ca and Mg etc., it's also the excess of K that causes problems. You've giving me new ideas about how to grow my Disas! Thanks!

Now you've got it!

Not sure I sent you the paper on rice plants that demonstrated that as tissue K went up Ca, Mg, and ultimately P went down (the uptake of P depends on Ca and Mg). Plants became deficient and poor producers.

Since I got onto this program I've also seen some pretty big improvements in the Pleurothalidae I still have. Many of these are cool growers from dripping rainforest. Also not liking heavy feeding in general. But now with very light applications with Cano3 and MgSO4 I'm starting to think about Draculas again.

 

[John M]

Not sure I sent you the paper on rice plants that demonstrated that as tissue K went up Ca, Mg, and ultimately P went down (the uptake of P depends on Ca and Mg). Plants became deficient and poor producers.Yes, you did. I'll have to go and reread it again! Thanks.

..

 

[emydura]

Plants locked up with K can't readily produce new growths. High K keeps the plant from uptaking Ca, Mg, PO4 and a host of micro metal nutrients needed for new growth.

So would that explain why I have so much trouble getting some of my Paphs to produce multiple new growths?

David

 

[bullsie]

Just my curiousity, but what is the hurry to get a seed pod from this plant? I wonder that if there is the slightest chance that your plant will die and the pod will prove to be useless, would it have been worth it? Does making a pod now that may be good and doesn't stress the plant tip the scale greater than total loss of a plant that could have used a little more time to maturity and eliminate the risk?

Just my two cents if I were faced with the situation - and with todays economics, I don't think two cents even registers on the value scale.

 

[Berthold]

I wonder that if there is the slightest chance that your plant will die and the pod will prove to be useless, would it have been worth it?

Yes it is because there is a very good chance that the plant survives and You have a good seed pod in addition.

 

[NYEric]

do what you please, it probably wont kill it if the plant is strong.

 

[Rick]

So would that explain why I have so much trouble getting some of my Paphs to produce multiple new growths?

David

Quite possibly, David. I've been geting much better new growth production since reducing K. I wasn't sure whether it was more the kelp than the reduced K, but SlipperKing I believe has been getting similar results, and is not using kelp.

 

[Rick]

Just my curiousity, but what is the hurry to get a seed pod from this plant? Does making a pod now that may be good and doesn't stress the plant tip the scale greater than total loss of a plant that could have used a little more time to maturity and eliminate the risk?

No experience with kovachii, but I've never lost anything else I've pollinated on a single growth plant.

I think the odds are very low that the plant will die, (certainly for reasons of making seed). No more than for loosing the plant over the next year for any other reason. And he only has one plant to loose (?). Using Troy M he could get flasking done for free, and with good seed get 25 more plants to start over with. 25 more chances to get it right the second time, or 25 more plants to sell and make back a fraction of what I've put into the single plant so far.

So for me, seedling production has been as much cheap insurance that I will have this plant to work with in the future.

 

[jhoff]

I'm gonna pollinate it And yes, I will send my seed to Troy.

 

[jhoff]

and btw, the flower is still fairly flat and has grown to 6" / 15.25 cm

 

[Berthold]

I'm gonna pollinate it

congratulation on that decision.

 

[Rick]

I'm gonna pollinate it And yes, I will send my seed to Troy.

I better hurry up and put it on my favorites/want list then!!!!

 

[jhoff]

I'm gonna take one pollen bundle and use it to do the selfing, the other I'm gonna divide between longifolium and besseae...

 

[Rick]

and btw, the flower is still fairly flat and has grown to 6" / 15.25 cm

GO!GO!GO!GO!