Selfing of a Primary Hybrid

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Happypaphy7

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Has it been done? I'm sure but I have no idea.
Can some of you tell me what the results were like? Is the quality even across the progenies? Or is it not a good idea?

The reason I ask is because one of my Magic Lantern (delenatii var. dunkel x micranthum) is carrying two seed capsules.
One is intentional where I crossed it with In-Charm Handel (hangianum x delenatii).
The other one is the work of self-pollination or so I assume because I never touched that second flower and the ovary never fell off since last July.
I have had some ovary staying on the inflorescence well after the flower dropped off, but they did not last this long. Usually just a few weeks max.
I plan on working with both seed capsule anyway but was just curious what the expected & observed results of selfing of a primany hybrid.
Thank you in advance!
 

Ray

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Looking at it strictly from the genetics angle, I suspect you'd get a typical bell-curve distribution, with most looking like the parent, but with different genetic mixes toward the two tails.
 

eds

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I'm sure it's been done and would expect the result as Ray stated. Can't find an example to share though!
 

Happypaphy7

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Thank you.
I think I'll just go with flasking them both. I only wish I had lots of space to bloom out lots of them to see the variations just for the curiosity's sake. Oh, well...
At least, everyone will have beautiful leaves for sure if anything. haha
 

tnyr5

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Done in food crop production all the time, although sib crosses are more common, out to 8-10 generations until the strains nearly breed true. Also back crosses, recurrent parent breeding, etc., you don't see it as much in orchids because of the long time between generations. It's a shame, because there's a lot of untapped potential, for example, you could backcross Magic Lantern to micranthum, and sib cross the progeny until you got plants that look exactly like micranthum, but grow like delenatii. Another that would be fun is 4 or 5 iterations of 2-step breeding, beginning with albino stonei x roth, crossing back to the biggest roth you could find, sibbing the offspring, selecting the albas, then crossing to another huge roth, and so on. A project that would take an entire lifetime, but the result would be an albino plant nearly indistinguishable in size and form from rothschildianum.
 
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Happypaphy7

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Done in food crop production all the time, although sib crosses are more common, out to 8-10 generations until the strains nearly breed true. Also back crosses, recurrent parent breeding, etc., you don't see it as much in orchids because of the long time between generations. It's a shame, because there's a lot of untapped potential, for example, you could backcross Magic Lantern to micranthum, and sib cross the progeny until you got plants that look exactly like micranthum, but grow like delenatii. Another that would be fun is 4 or 5 iterations of 2-step breeding, beginning with albino stonei x roth, crossing back to the biggest roth you could find, sibbing the offspring, selecting the albas, then crossing to another huge roth, and so on. A project that would take an entire lifetime, but the result would be an albino plant nearly indistinguishable in size and form from rothschildianum.
Yes! The time it takes would be the major hurdle as you say. What a shame!!
Micranthum that grows and blooms as easily as delenatii would be so nice. I can only dream. haha
 

emydura

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That is my understanding as well. Unlike the primary hybrid, which is pretty uniform in its phenotype, the secondary hybrid will show way more variation from one parent species to the other and everything in between.
 

Happypaphy7

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Maybe I give up the seed capsule of this voluntary selfing and instead try crossing Magic Lantern x Magic Lantern (not a sib cross)?
What do you guys think??
 

eds

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Maybe I give up the seed capsule of this voluntary selfing and instead try crossing Magic Lantern x Magic Lantern (not a sib cross)?
What do you guys think??

Unless there are particular characteristics in one parent not present in the other that you could select for in the progeny then it shouldn't make much difference. If your other pod is developing fine, I'd go with that rather than waiting to do a ML x ML cross with two plants.

The only other reason would be to avoid inbreeding depression but that is much less of an issue with plants than many vertebrates.
 

Happypaphy7

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Unless there are particular characteristics in one parent not present in the other that you could select for in the progeny then it shouldn't make much difference. If your other pod is developing fine, I'd go with that rather than waiting to do a ML x ML cross with two plants.

The only other reason would be to avoid inbreeding depression but that is much less of an issue with plants than many vertebrates.

The two ML both have very nice flowers and both plants are good growers & bloomers. So. maybe it's worthwhile. Or I can just continue on dividing them.
Yeah, I think I might as well just go with the seed capsule of the selfing for now. I have nothing to lose. It's just for fun anyway and I might even get some decent progenies out of this.
Thanks!
 
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