Scale

[Ray]

Tristar is a neonicotinoid, MOA Group 4A, so you want to avoid anything in that group (Merit/imidicloprid, for example). Personally, I'd go with acephate, group 1B, organophosphates.

OHP published a good chart of MOA's

 

[southernbelle]

Southernbelle, was Tristar effective? Ray, I only stopped a month after 3 weekly sprayings of a combination of acephate and Enstar. I'm in that period now. Next month I will inspect each plant. I'd rather not do more general spraying, if it's not needed. If I find infestation at that point, Ray, what would you recommend next. Enstar and something else? I'm also inclined at that point to isolate any plants with infestation and only treat those, or throw some or all away. I'm aware of the possibility that they will achieve resistance, if they haven't already.

It was recommended by Jerry Fischer of Orchids Limited for scale. I’ve sprayed twice 7 days apart, thoroughly spraying foliage and medium after removing any visible scale with alcohol. One more spray to go, but so far, so good.

 

[littlefrog]

Distance (Pyriproxyfen) has a similar (same?) mechanism of action as Enstar, and is translaminar. Which means it gets into the plant - a systemic, basically. This is what I use. Usually in combination with a couple other pesticides with different mechanisms of action.

 

[justagirlart]

Acephate on one leaf killed the leaf

 

[Ray]

Acephate on one leaf killed the leaf

I have used acephate on my plants for decades and never seen any damage. What was the starting material, and how was it diluted and applied?

 

[Sky7Bear]

I'm now back from a short trip to Southern California (with an expensive stop at Norman's Orchids!). I stored up some questions and comments while I was away and reading by tablet or phone. Ray, why do you recommend not using Tristar? Because it's a neonic and probably killing bees? I believe one of the other poisons you use is also a neonic. I don't mind using it in a greenhouse because I have no bees there. I would not and do not use it outside.

In looking in Amazon I see other brands of pyriproxyphen which are much less expensive than Tristar. Safe to use one of those after adjusting for differences in formulations. Has anyone tried any of these?

 

[justagirlart]

Since acephate is systemic and had never used it on phrags I was cautious putting it on one leaf to see what happened. That particular leaf died. The rest of the orchid is still alive. The scale was not rampant, only a few spots, I just removed all the spots by hand daily, It never became a big problem. I am new and exploring different things. All I know is my results.

 

[Ray]

Since acephate is systemic and had never used it on phrags I was cautious putting it on one leaf to see what happened. That particular leaf died. The rest of the orchid is still alive. The scale was not rampant, only a few spots, I just removed all the spots by hand daily, It never became a big problem. I am new and exploring different things. All I know is my results.

You still didn't answer my questions about the starting material, dilution or application...

 

[Ray]

Ray, why do you recommend not using Tristar? Because it's a neonic and probably killing bees? I believe one of the other poisons you use is also a neonic. I don't mind using it in a greenhouse because I have no bees there. I would not and do not use it outside.

I did not and do not recommend that Tristar not be used. What I said was that if someone had been using another neonicotinoid-based pesticide, they should use one with a different MOA for the next round of treatments. For example, if you've been using Merit (imidicloprid), Tristar - also a neonic - is not a good choice.

 

[likespaphs]

...if you've been using Merit (imidicloprid), Tristar - also a neonic - is not a good choice.

i completely agree (for what it's worth)
the only way that, in my mind, it would be okay to use tristar if you have used imidacloprid is that you never use imidacloprid again.
although tristar and imidacloprid are both neonics, the active ingredient in tristar is much stronger than imidacloprid.
NEVER go from tristar to imidacloprid

 

[Ray]

i completely agree (for what it's worth)
the only way that, in my mind, it would be okay to use tristar if you have used imidacloprid is that you never use imidacloprid again.
although tristar and imidacloprid are both neonics, the active ingredient in tristar is much stronger than imidacloprid.
NEVER go from tristar to imidacloprid

Sorry, but that simply doesn't make sense to me.

The idea of changing pesticides' MOA is to reduce the chances of breeding resistant bugs.

If you use imidicloprid and have failed to kill every last critter (typical of ANY pesticide application), the remaining ones may have a genetic tolerance to the action the pesticide uses to kill. Using an insecticide with the same MOA, like Tristar, will do nothing to remedy that except maybe "hone" the resistant strains to be even more resistant. So, you switch to an insecticide with a different MOA to increase the odds that those resistant critters will not be resistant to this mode, and will die. Using imidicloprid or tristar in the future is totally independent of that.

 

[Frederick]

Hello, I find the most effective treatment is Cryptolaemus montrouzieri, a species of ladybird originally from Australia. They are unbelievably voracious and will rid you of scale within a few days. I have used them in my garden (and on my Paphs out for the summer) several years ago to extraordinary effect. You should be able to buy the larvae in your country (they are available in the E.U.).
Cheers.
F.

 

[likespaphs]

Sorry, but that simply doesn't make sense to me.

The idea of changing pesticides' MOA is to reduce the chances of breeding resistant bugs.

If you use imidicloprid and have failed to kill every last critter (typical of ANY pesticide application), the remaining ones may have a genetic tolerance to the action the pesticide uses to kill. Using an insecticide with the same MOA, like Tristar, will do nothing to remedy that except maybe "hone" the resistant strains to be even more resistant. So, you switch to an insecticide with a different MOA to increase the odds that those resistant critters will not be resistant to this mode, and will die. Using imidicloprid or tristar in the future is totally independent of that.

imidacloprid is not terribly soluble, somewhere around 600 ppm in water
Tristar (acetamiprid) is significantly more soluble ~2950 ppm
Safari (dinotefuran) is super soluble ~39830 ppm

as such, if you are changing your pesticide rotation and the imidacloprid is no longer effective (ie the pests have developed resistance to it), if you switch to tristar or safari to reintroduce neonics as a moa, switching back to imidacloprid (or even tristar if you've switched to safari) would definitely lead to developing resistance.
i believe that q-biotype whitefly are resistant to every neonic except safari

 

[Ray]

I'm no expert on pesticides, but greater water solubility does not necessarily equate to more efficacy.

 

[likespaphs]

I'm no expert on pesticides, but greater water solubility does not necessarily equate to more efficacy.

with these, it does as per Dr Raymond Cloyd and other people who are pesticide experts as i am not

 

[Ray]

Yes, I've communicated with him.

I'll take it as true that they might be stronger.

 

[likespaphs]

Yes, I've communicated with him.

I'll take it as true that they might be stronger.

they are