sanderianum cross

[gonewild]

After all this, Nick on SOF said he'd take the rejects! (We have somewhere to send them!)
Personally I just don't get it. when the odds are against you (and doesn't everyone pretty much have limited space), why would you want to spend good money first & then invest the time, upkeep, electric, heating, etc. in a plant that's not going to bloom or once in a 10 year time span?

Beauty is relevant. If that were the flower on a bulbo everyone would be excited and it would even stink. But on a Paph it is ugly? Not really it is just different.

Don't you plan on being around in 10 years? I hope you don't feel the same way about your human children. :rollhappy:

Just imagine how exciting it is to have an "old friend" plant that has been around for a decade finally decide to show what it has.

 

[goldenrose]

Don't you plan on being around in 10 years? I hope you don't feel the same way about your human children. :rollhappy:

What human kids? oke:That's why I have dogs!

 

[smartie2000]

well the colours are nice. If the dorsal was flat and the pouch was in better shape then it would be fine. There have been uglier plants.

 

[gonewild]

What human kids? oke:That's why I have dogs!

Poor puppies! oke: Just kidding!

 

[goldenrose]

You should be so lucky to be one of my dogs!

 

[gonewild]

You should be so lucky to be one of my dogs!

Maybe but I'm sure glad I'm not one or your brachy hybrids!!

 

[Candace]

Oops, I was thinking this cross sounded familiar. And very much like somthing I'd buy thinking it was intriguing. So, I hunted around in the g.h. this morning. Its name is Wossner Bellsand, and yes, I've got it. I've also got a conco-bellatulum x sanderianum. Hope I have a better result than this one...:sob:

 

[NYEric]

For me, I do grow some crosses like this because of the challenge to get them to bloom. But, if they were to bloom out unattractively(in my eyes) I wouldn't keep it.

If you want to get rid of it I'll take it. I'm not so much into the challenge as to have house plants. Of course if you've seen my house you may think I've gone a little crazy!:crazy:

 

[Candace]

O.K. it's getting near B.S. At least I think it is, who knows with these crosses! And if it is indeed a fugly one you can adopt it;>

 

[NYEric]

Yay! PS, for smilies mouth is shift&zero.

 

[Hien]

I've seen uglier. The dirty little secret of bellatulum is that, while its best crosses are beautiful, many of its crosses are absolutely hideous....if you can get them to bloom. One of the ugliest paphs I've ever seen was a cross of bellatulum x vietnamense. Small, cupped petals, and a cubic, yes, cubic, pouch. Yech! Take care, Eric

A really perfect cube pouch is interesting. The sharper the line the better. I would give that plant a place in the collection. I imagine it could be mesmerizing.
(If everything else about the flower is in balance & the color pattern is pleasing)
Last week one of my phal decides to have a really strange flower, square shape w/ zigzag petal tips. while all the other flowers on the same spike are round. very interesting.
Does anyone know the answer for this question:
- if I self this flower, does the seedlings retain this flower shape? or the result plants still bloom out normal like the other flower of the same spike?

 

[toddybear]

Some crosses just shouldn't be done. My dog has passed better specimens! (ouch, that's harsh!)

 

[goldenrose]

Ouch - that is harsh!ity:
I don't particularly care for it but I've seen ALOT WORSE!

 

[Leo Schordje]

This (bellatulum x sanderianum) has single handedly set Paph breeding back 150 years.
Why do people keep making and re-making this type of cross, because the occasional (rare) 'good one' can be very good. Like playing a 10 year lottery. One other reason is that a good one of this type of cross could be back crossed with another long petaled sanderianum hybrid to get long petaled multiflorals with a lot of red markings over a white or yellow background.
I have my Rolfei and my Delrosi, they bloom infrequent, and always a little freaky, but I enjoy them.

 

[goldenrose]

and that's the bottomline ...... you know their faults/weakness & you ENJOY them!
I got chomped on earlier in this post by Lance & that's OK, we all have our opinion. When one goes knowingly into these hybrids then it's their choice. I was feeling a bit sorry for Nick because he is retired, he shows alot of restraint in his purchases & it just seems his money could be better spent in a different cross. I would love nothing more than him to end up with one, bloom it successfully & on a regular basis & be able to rub my nose in it!

 

[gonewild]

Chomped?
I just like to point out that we should always look deeper than the surface for beauty.

Even thought the plant in the photo that started this discussion is not very attractive it does still have some valuable assets.

1. It bloomed.
2. It bloomed on a rather small (young) plant for the type of hybrid.
3. It has long petals on a compact plant.
4. The flower is not all distorted.

It may be more desirable than we think and very well could prove to be an important ancestor to a new style of hybrid paph.
Back cross it to a betulatum or sanderianum and it will likely start to take a form that is more appealing yet very different from either parent group.
Gotta start somewhere.

 

[goldenrose]

You're absolutely right on all counts. In my first post I indicated it should get better on it's next bloom. I might be whistling a different tune then. I think it's a great idea to cross it back to sand or a sand X. What would you want/expect to see by crossing it back to bellatulum?

 

[kentuckiense]

Chomped?
I just like to point out that we should always look deeper than the surface for beauty.

Even thought the plant in the photo that started this discussion is not very attractive it does still have some valuable assets.

1. It bloomed.
2. It bloomed on a rather small (young) plant for the type of hybrid.
3. It has long petals on a compact plant.
4. The flower is not all distorted.

It may be more desirable than we think and very well could prove to be an important ancestor to a new style of hybrid paph.
Back cross it to a betulatum or sanderianum and it will likely start to take a form that is more appealing yet very different from either parent group.
Gotta start somewhere.

I agree. I don't understand all the hate. I'm glad the cross was made simply so that we can see what results. Is it "pretty?" Probably not. But it IS interesting to see how the two parents combined. I'd take this over a bulldog any day of the week.

 

[gonewild]

What would you want/expect to see by crossing it back to bellatulum?

I answered this once but the post never showed up so I'll take a chance of repeating myself...

Maybe...
Large white based flowers with spots and long petals on a compact plant with moderate length stems that would fit under fluorescent lights?

 

[Roy]

I placed the original photo to show growers something of a cross that is unusual. I have enjoyed reading the posts. I still say I'm happy I don't own the plant. I tend to agree with Leo on most points but also a little with Lance that it might breed something better down the track BUT I still ask Why Bother?? Wouldn't it be most cost effective and more efficient to line breed to improve what we have now. Bellatulums are being ling bred which is making them easier to grow and flower and the same with the Multi florals. I think for time, space and economics plus the added fact that you eliminate the flowering & growing problems and the questionable flower shape at the end. Too many nurseries are producing seedlings like the pictured cross and Paph lovers are paying good money for little if any results. I think its time for breeders to get back to reality and start looking at what people can grow and not the breeder wants them to grow.
Roy.