Roth flasks from TON

Discussion in 'Breeding & Production' started by kiwi, Jan 26, 2016.

Slippertalk Orchid Forum

Help Support Slippertalk Orchid Forum:

  1. Jan 27, 2016 #21

    paphioland

    paphioland

    paphioland

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,457
    Likes Received:
    7
    Id much rather have tarantula outcrossed to some other genetics. MM is always there. You already got the best of MM in the parent flowers, probably mm is the backround of the outcross as well. Why go back and get the bad parts of MM? MM wasn't that spectacular compared to modern roths. Id go back to tarantula just because nothing has come close to it.

    I have bloomed out multiple Tarantula offspring. It will be a good parent. The best two roths I bloomed last year had tarantula as a parent. I already put a pod on it.
     
  2. Jan 27, 2016 #22

    Fabrice

    Fabrice

    Fabrice

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    France
    Don't ask me why TON crossed Tarantula to MM. But ask Machan. I think there's a good reason and not just for his curiosity. You think this cross will get the bad parts of MM. I (and probably Machan too) think this cross will highlight the MM qualities added to the Tarantula size. In fact, I think this cross will give more percentage of awarded plants, simply. and many more than "MM x Val" and even "MM x Val" X "MM x Val".
    About "MM x Val", I think the weakness of the cross was "Val" and necessarily, Tarantula have bad parts of Val in their genetic pool. To cross it again with a sister plant "MM x Val" is is not necessarily a good idea , or at least does not necessarily give a high rate of awarded plants , even if the other parent is as good as Tarantula.

    I think phenotype is important but global genetic vision is more important.

    About your Tarantula crosses, please give me the link to see the pictures because I don't remember to have already saw a bloom with Tarantula as parent on this forum. And I'm of course very interested!
     
  3. Jan 27, 2016 #23

    kiwi

    kiwi

    kiwi

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2013
    Messages:
    344
    Likes Received:
    29
    Location:
    New Zealand
    So for you Roth experts which cross do you consider to have the best potential Mont Millais x tarantula or Rex x Tokyo Fantasy?
     
  4. Jan 28, 2016 #24

    Justin

    Justin

    Justin

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    5,849
    Likes Received:
    29
    Location:
    Columbus Ohio
    The MM cross should have darker color while the Rex cross should be bigger with lighter yellow color.
     
  5. Feb 2, 2016 #25

    emydura

    emydura

    emydura

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    6,813
    Likes Received:
    102
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    I'd love to have a flask or two involving 'Tarantula' or 'Tokyo Fantasy' but none of those crosses seem that appealing to me. They don't seem like a step forward. The price is a bit steep, notwithstanding the high number of healthy seedlings. That 'Tarantula' cross would cost $750 AUD. I think Sam's "Giant Wings" x "Canadian Club" has more potential and it is only around $250 AUD.

    I think there have been better 'Tarantula' and 'Tokyo fantasy' crosses on previous catalogs. Still you never seem to see 'Tarantula' or 'Tokyo fantasy' crossed with some of the other great TON clones such as "Giant Wings" or "Raptor". None of us could afford it anyway.
     
  6. Feb 2, 2016 #26

    Ozpaph

    Ozpaph

    Ozpaph

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,259
    Likes Received:
    176
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    I like the Rex X TF - add some more size (hopefully) to one of the best roth in the world - already 34cm with 6.4cm dorsal.
     
  7. Feb 2, 2016 #27

    Fabrice

    Fabrice

    Fabrice

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    France
    About price I agree. Yes, TON is probably the best roth. breeder in the world but I find the price is a little "optimistic"... :(

    @OZpaph: I agree with you. This cross is maybe "the best quality/price ratio".
     
  8. Feb 2, 2016 #28

    paphioland

    paphioland

    paphioland

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,457
    Likes Received:
    7
    There are Tarantula x perfection and Tarantula x giant wings. I have a bunch of them. I think that Machan has made Tarantula x Raptor but he doesnt sell them. I will make the cross soon but dont know if I will sell any.
     
  9. Feb 2, 2016 #29

    Fabrice

    Fabrice

    Fabrice

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    France
    Do you mean you have Tarantula division and Raptor division in your collection?

    About my previous request, I ask you again pictures or links to see your blooms of last generation roth. with Tarantula and others. :)

    Thank you.
     
  10. Feb 2, 2016 #30

    paphioland

    paphioland

    paphioland

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,457
    Likes Received:
    7
    Yes. I have the three you are talking about Tarantula, Tokyo Fantasy and Raptor

    Uploading pics takes time lol which I have little of. When I get around to it I will.
     
  11. Feb 2, 2016 #31

    ronan

    ronan

    ronan

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2009
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    no offense, but you write a lot and we don't see a lot! just like Xavier, lot of references and knowledge for sure, but always promissing things, talking about all they have, but we saw nothing...5 pictures in 2015 (including a "just ok" roth), and 3 in 2014, and no roth...but many internet pictures and speculations. :poke:
    It's time to show us your benches, right?;) or let me know who you are.
    thx
     
  12. Feb 2, 2016 #32

    theorchidzone

    theorchidzone

    theorchidzone

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    0
    I can verify that Paphioland has everything he says he has.
    It is also abundantly clear that his views are well informed.
    JC


     
  13. Feb 2, 2016 #33

    ronan

    ronan

    ronan

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2009
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    good to know, but still nothing to see...:rollhappy:
     
  14. Feb 2, 2016 #34

    emydura

    emydura

    emydura

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    6,813
    Likes Received:
    102
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    I agree, that is probably the pick. It will add a bit of genetic diversity. But I think I would prefer it if TF was crossed with a select clone of 'Rex' x 'MM' rather than just 'Rex' itself. That would be more of a step forward.
     
  15. Feb 2, 2016 #35

    cattmad

    cattmad

    cattmad

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,015
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Brisbane, QLD, Australia
    TON did offer other TF crosses last year.

    I bought flasks of black star x TF and another non related one macura five star x TF

    MFS is wild collected but huge according to TON
     
  16. Feb 3, 2016 #36

    Fabrice

    Fabrice

    Fabrice

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    France
    Agree with ronan.

    About division of all the best roths in the world, maybe they are not already bloomed at your house. So, I will be patient for them.

    But when you told us you had bloomed several crosses with Tarantula and other, I immediatly searched on the forum. No picture while they are the last generation of select TON roth. Very surprising.

    Please take a little time and let's share this pleasure with us! :)
     
  17. Feb 4, 2016 #37

    emydura

    emydura

    emydura

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    6,813
    Likes Received:
    102
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    I liked those crosses much better. I think there was also 'Black Star' x 'Tarantula' x and 'Black Star' x 'Raptor'.
     
  18. Feb 4, 2016 #38

    Ozpaph

    Ozpaph

    Ozpaph

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,259
    Likes Received:
    176
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Did you get some???
     
  19. Feb 4, 2016 #39

    emydura

    emydura

    emydura

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    6,813
    Likes Received:
    102
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    No. A little pricey for me especially as I'm not 100% confident yet in my deflasking ability. I also didn't realise the quality and quantity of seedlings in the flask. Plus I didn't expect they would post one or two flasks.
     
  20. Feb 14, 2016 #40

    paphioland

    paphioland

    paphioland

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,457
    Likes Received:
    7
    Im not crazy about either cross compared to other TON roth crosses. Depends on your taste. I think that the tokyo fantasy cross with rex will probably make really nice roths but they will have yellow. If that doesn't bother you go for it. The tarantula cross will be nice too I just don't think it has much chance of passing tarantula with regression toward the mean plus going back to a parent. The general quality of the cross will likely be raised though.
     

Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page

Group Builder
arrow_white