Purple Phrag Puzzle

Slippertalk Orchid Forum

Help Support Slippertalk Orchid Forum:

abax

ST Supporter
ST Supporter
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Messages
12,083
Reaction score
575
Location
Kentucky zone 6B
Ah, the Enigma! The color is much better on ST than OSF.
Has anyone decided on a definitive cross? I think the plant
is amazingly beautiful.
 

Achamore

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
877
Reaction score
14
Location
Isle of Gigha, Scotland
Although the cross with Carol Kanzer is an intriguing suggestion, I don't think it would be likely, given the petal length and shape.

I was talking with a German grower at the Malvern Orchid Show in England in June, and he said that recently some people have reported finding purple klotzscheanums. I think he meant that these purple varieties have appeared in plants that are already in collections. I mean to contact him to discuss the matter further, but he is on holiday this week.

I wish my records were better, but I know for sure that this same plant has bloomed in my greenhouse 3 years ago. And the photos I took show it to be green. I also labelled those photos Phrag La Vivace Epicure Phyllis D Turner which suggests that the tag was still in the pot back then. I did buy a Phrag La Vivace Epicure Phyllis D Turner from Jerry Fischer about 5 or 6 years back. But a colour change like this is impossible, right?? My only surmise is that when I nearly killed this plant 18 months ago - I had moved it and it didn't like the new spot at all - that somehow that trauma has brought about this change...???

I'll post some photos of the bloom from 2012, and show them. Then you can compare them. I believe it is the same plant. But that just seems too bizarre for me to believe.
 
D

Drorchid

Guest
That IS very interesting!

We haven't bloomed any Phrag. La Vivace Epicure Phyllis D Turner that look anything like that, but this plant is definitely 50% klotzscheanum, and the shape looks like Phyllis D Turner! but why the color change? Have you been growing it at cooler or warmer conditions than normal? That can have an effect on the color.

It is possible that some of the red pigments came from klotzscheanum. look at one of our Phrag. Nights in White Satin (which is 25% klotzscheanum, 25% popowii and 50% wallisii). This plant has a lot of pinks and reds as well:

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38209

So one possibility is that it is indeed Phyllis D. Turner, but either you have two different seedlings in your container (same cross, but 2 different genotypes), one is more green (and this is the one that bloomed before), and one is more pink. Or the difference in color could be due to an environmental difference (warmer or cooler temps, or you may have sprayed the plant with some chemical like an insecticide or fungicide which had an effect on the flower color).

The other possibility is that it is a different cross, so klotzscheanum x ?? if I would guess something else, it would be by schlimii or a schlimii hybrid.

Robert
 
D

Drorchid

Guest
I just did a google search for Phrag. La Vivace Epicure Phyllis D Turner:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Phr...ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIk6yt5JLyxgIVFjGICh38cw4Q

Non (Except your photo) show up with those light pink colors. The lightest one is by our own Dot (Slipperfan):

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10936

I do notice ALL of them (including the picture from Dot) have a distinct green edge along the pouch, formed by green dots. Yours does not have that distinct green edge, which makes me think it is a different hybrid, and probably made with either schlimii or a schlimii hybrid with klotzscheanum.

Robert
 
D

Drorchid

Guest
I don't think this is it, but just as a refference, this is one of our crosses: Phrag. Amazon Pixie (klotzscheanum x fischeri):



The cross with schlimii would be a lot lighter in color. Now that I have seen this picture of Amazon Pixie and going back to your plant it might be the real deal (so a Phyllis D Turner), based on your staminodal shield and the petals (if it was a cross that had schlimii in the background your staminodal shield would have more pink or white in it, but yours is all green). It is just a mystery why the pouch is sooooo strange! I would suggest to bloom it again, and see what it will look like!

Robert
 

SlipperFan

Addicted
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
43,287
Reaction score
25
Location
Michigan, USA
I don't think it's the same plant. 2nd one is La Vivace etc, and a nice one. The lined pouch isn't as pronounced as in mine, but it is still there.
 

Achamore

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
877
Reaction score
14
Location
Isle of Gigha, Scotland
Hi Robert, I think your explanation is the most likely answer. I suspect that two seedlings from the same cross were in the one pot.

Nights in White Satin shows that klotzscheanum carries a capacity to impart the pale purple hues. Given the reports coming in of purple klotzscheanum being found lately, this then would explain where that came from in this new bloom, and if it were two different plants within the pot, but of the same cross, then it all makes a lot of sense to me.


That IS very interesting!

We haven't bloomed any Phrag. La Vivace Epicure Phyllis D Turner that look anything like that, but this plant is definitely 50% klotzscheanum, and the shape looks like Phyllis D Turner! but why the color change? Have you been growing it at cooler or warmer conditions than normal? That can have an effect on the color.

It is possible that some of the red pigments came from klotzscheanum. look at one of our Phrag. Nights in White Satin (which is 25% klotzscheanum, 25% popowii and 50% wallisii). This plant has a lot of pinks and reds as well:

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38209

So one possibility is that it is indeed Phyllis D. Turner, but either you have two different seedlings in your container (same cross, but 2 different genotypes), one is more green (and this is the one that bloomed before), and one is more pink. Or the difference in color could be due to an environmental difference (warmer or cooler temps, or you may have sprayed the plant with some chemical like an insecticide or fungicide which had an effect on the flower color).

The other possibility is that it is a different cross, so klotzscheanum x ?? if I would guess something else, it would be by schlimii or a schlimii hybrid.

Robert
 
Top