Prime Agra New vs. Old

[gonewild]

Yes, I know Blake was happy with the old PA. But, it's smart that when switching over to any newer medium that you take it slowly and experiment with a few plants to see what happens. Not 50 at once.

In Blake's defense he really did not change media. He used a new improved PrimeAgra, it is supposed to be the same as the old, only better.

If you have 50 plants to repot from organic media into s/h you really don't have time to test every batch of media. But on the other hand you are correct Candace.

Maybe Ray should have changed the name as the new material is so different from the old.

 

[gonewild]

I know Blake personally and I am an avid S/H grower, 95% of my potted plants are in the old S/H and I have not had any problems. Based on Blakes findings I was and still am very reluctant to use the new S/H on its own. I have been the recipiend of a lot of Blakes new S/H and have yet to start moving plants. I am waiting until it warms up a bit. I have moved a few but I have used a 50-50 mix of old S/H and new S/H. I am not seeing any problems so far. I plan to place a large order with a different company in the next month they have what seems to be primeAgra also. I had them send me samples and it seems to be the same so i plan to go that route.

So far Blake is still the only person to report problems with the new PA. Surely there are other forum members who have tried it?

Please post a link to the different company. You are allowed to post links on SlipperTalk.

 

[bwester]

Kinte, didnt you order from that other place??

 

[Candace]

o.K. I'm clear on how you grow now Lance. Thanks for the photo and explaining in more detail your set-up. And it does in my mind fall into the s/h arena:> From what you described, to me it sounded like it wasn't. Shows you how e-mails and the written word lose some meaning. I would like clarification of your ferlizer regime maybe on a different thread? If I'm missing out and worrying about over fertilization, I'd like to hear more.

My tds meter died a few months ago and I just ordered another. So, it's very possible I've been going over 150 a bit. It's just the cheapo Hanna model but it does the trick.

I agree that the main thread of old versus new primeagra is the one at hand so will try to refrain my questions to that.

Are you concerned about your new kovach. in the new stuff and will you be changing it?

I'd like to hear about more people's experiences with it, but maybe it hasn't been out long enough for folks to form an opinion.

 

[gonewild]

Coupla ??'s for you Lance:

Was the primeagra you used fresh out of the box at the start of the test or was it recycled?

Fresh out of the box. Not recycled. But I did not plant any of the pots as a test, so I really did not start a "test". What I did was test pots on my growing shelves.

Have you tried doing a cycling rinse: soak for a period of time, rinse, soak, rinse for x cycles?

No. Should not need to do that with a product designed and manufactured for horticulture. I soaked some of the material for over 30 days, that should have been enough.

Your fertilizer solution is 538 ppm. The new PA test above indicated 851 ppm for a net GAIN of 313 ppm. The old indicated 412 ppm for a net LOSS of 126. Your 8 month test indicates 448 ppm, again for a net LOSS of 90. Do you have a hypothosis for that?

Yes I think I know why the loss occurred in these pots. The samples you cite have growing plants in them. The plants are consuming some of the ppm as nutrients. That is what is supposed to happen! :clap:

With the old PA the consumed nutrients yield a loss in ppm.

But with the new PA I'm not sure why they salts are accumulating.
With the new PA there still is consumption, so the gain must be from either soluable salts manufactured into the newPA itself or the newPA is somehow absorbing and holding salts that slowly leach out. My guess is salts leaching out of the material itself.

 

[kinte]

Kinte, didnt you order from that other place??

not yet, waiting for my settlement check

http://cropking.com/ search for LECA

 

[gonewild]

Shows you how e-mails and the written word lose some meaning. I would like clarification of your ferlizer regime maybe on a different thread? If I'm missing out and worrying about over fertilization, I'd like to hear more.

I think you are worrying needlessly. You are not missing out because you are very happy with your plant growth. :clap:
But just think how happy you will be if you learn how to improve on what you have!

Start another thread and ask questions and I'll answer. That is a great subject!

My tds meter died a few months ago and I just ordered another. So, it's very possible I've been going over 150 a bit. It's just the cheapo Hanna model but it does the trick.

I'm using a cheap one also, my good one is in Peru. I have checked the cheap one I have and it is accurate. But beware not all testers read in the same scale. Maybe the one you had was not displaying ppm?

I agree that the main thread of old versus new primeagra is the one at hand so will try to refrain my questions to that.

All your questions are really good and important to ask. But the answers always lead to other questions which get off topic really fast. If you think of a question that gets off topic by all means start a new thread.

Are you concerned about your new kovach. in the new stuff and will you be changing it?

I am of course concerned. If I change them I (we) won't know what they can tolerate. I will monitor them very closely for a while and if I see any problems I'll change them. Kind of an expensive plant to experiment on but I want to learn. I don't think 500 or 600 ppm is going to hurt them as nobody really knows if they are salt sensitive like besseae. I am concerned about the "extra" salt crystals on the surface touching the soft tissue of the new seedlings. I may need to alter my watering and fertilizing practice for the new PA.

I'd like to hear about more people's experiences with it, but maybe it hasn't been out long enough for folks to form an opinion.

It has been out long enough for people to see problems if there problems. I think maybe most people are timid about posting problems? But what we really want to hear is reports from people who have used the new PA and are happy with it. Let's think positive.

 

[Heather]

I am not timid about posting, I'm timid about using! I won't buy the stuff until we know more. I'm stickin' with the old stuff.

 

[ScottMcC]

So far, the majority of the plants I have in new primeagra are doing great. My Phrag Cape Sunset seedling is struggling, but it got a pretty bad fungal infection that I'm not sure can be attributed to the difference between new and old primeagra. interestingly enough, that one was purchased from Ray's store.

anyway, here's my thoughts about Lance's observation of increased salt content with the new vs old. I think it's occuring due to the increased evaporation rate with the new stuff. Much like the ocean becomes salty because the water can evaporate, leaving the salt behind, the primeagra becomes salty when the water evaporates. The reason this doesn't happen with the old primeagra is that the evaporation is slow enough that the plant can take up the salts quickly enough to compensate, but such is not the case for the new stuff.

anyway, it's just a thought, and I don't have evidence to back it up, but it seems to make sense to me.

by the way, I follow Ray's directions on his website pretty closely, but as a result of all the visible salt buildup I have been getting on the new primeagra I've started using fresh water flushes and 75 ppm N MSU fertilizer instead of 125 ppm N.

 

[Inverness]

I have both the old and new. Have five compots of phrags potted into the new media (fine grade). All doing well, nice growth and roots. Several dozen miltonia seedlings also well. My one kovachii, the same. Assorted catts, phals, paphs, and other genera OK. I give the newly purchased media a light rinse, then use it. No soaking, no KLN.

Watering is every 5-7 days, MSU 125ppm almost every watering. All indoors under HID. I do water liberally, lots of runoff (floor drains). New PA seems to stay wetter, but that is what I was looking for. Been growing orchids more than 40 years. For me, PrimeAgra/SH has worked better than bark, bark mixes, coir.
Ken B.

 

[NYEric]

I got this little TDS meter. That I assume is reading in ppm. When I check my R.O. water it reads 2. When I check my trays w/ the MSU fertilizer that I'm only applying at 1/4 tsp per Gallon [ once a week and washing thru w/ R.O. daily] it reads 280-350. Doesn't that seem a little high for ppm then?!?

 

[gonewild]

I got this little TDS meter. That I assume is reading in ppm. When I check my R.O. water it reads 2. When I check my trays w/ the MSU fertilizer that I'm only applying at 1/4 tsp per Gallon [ once a week and washing thru w/ R.O. daily] it reads 280-350. Doesn't that seem a little high for ppm then?!?

Look on your meter, it should say what scale it reads in.
I'm not an expert on RO units but "2" is really low I think. Most people have told me the units only take the water down to 10 -20 ppm.

The other major factor in measuring ppm is accuracy of the 1/4 tsp of fertilizer you add. the actual weight of the amount is what is important. If your fertilizer powder is coarse grained or fine grained could make a huge difference in the actual ppm. Take a reading on your fresh fertilizer solution and it should read around 190 ppm.

How often you change your tray water will determine how high the ppm rises over time. The combination of RO water, fertilizer water and evaporation will greatly change your tray water's ppm.

280-350 ppm is not to high at all, in fact I would suggest it is low.

 

[NYEric]

I'm only using a quater teaspoon per Gallon and I think the package says 1 [whole] teaspoon per Gallon. I want to keep it low because I grow hydro. Thanx for the info.

 

[gonewild]

I'm only using a quater teaspoon per Gallon and I think the package says 1 [whole] teaspoon per Gallon. I want to keep it low because I grow hydro. Thanx for the info.

I know, you have said that before.
I simply was saying your ppms are not to worry about.

 

[Candace]

Lance, my R.O. unit's output is that low. I was told by Culligan that anything over that amount means it's not operating properly. Either the membrane needs replacing, the filters need changing or the amount of refuse water isn't enough and is backing up the system. I actually noted this when you mentioned yours measured around 18 and was going to say something, but forgot.

I replace my filters etc. when I notice it going about 3 or 4, which usually works out to be about every 8 months or so. My membrane lasts for a couple of years.

 

[gonewild]

Lance, my R.O. unit's output is that low. I was told by Culligan that anything over that amount means it's not operating properly. Either the membrane needs replacing, the filters need changing or the amount of refuse water isn't enough and is backing up the system. I actually noted this when you mentioned yours measured around 18 and was going to say something, but forgot.

I replace my filters etc. when I notice it going about 3 or 4, which usually works out to be about every 8 months or so. My membrane lasts for a couple of years.

You are probably right. I did not pay too much attention to that part when I bought my RO unit from a family friend. He said something about going down close to 0 would cause more corrosion in the house plumbing and also require more frequent filter replacement. 18 ppm is plenty low enough.

How many gallons per day does your unit make?

 

[Heather]

oh, oops! Yeah, I meant 150ppm nitrogen. Sorry! I knew something was off there.

 

[gonewild]

oh, oops! Yeah, I meant 150ppm nitrogen. Sorry! I knew something was off there.

Oops! I think you did the same thing I did and posted your responce to the wrong thread! I moved mine to the fertilizer thread where it was supposed to be. :sob:

In any case. Honest error, but that tiny error is how growing rumors get spread. Without correction everyone would/may assume you maintain a total of 150 ppm and since you grow award winning plants they copy you.

I think this is why people don't fertilize their orchids enough

 

[Candace]

How many gallons per day does your unit make?

It's either a 50gpd or 75 gallon per day membrane. I think 50. I replaced it about 8 months ago.

Yeah, 18 is still low and I would just take it as a note to self to watch the membrane and filters.

 

[gonewild]

It's either a 50gpd or 75 gallon per day membrane. I think 50. I replaced it about 8 months ago.

Yeah, 18 is still low and I would just take it as a note to self to watch the membrane and filters.

Mine makes a little over 4 gallons per hour.