Phragmipedium repot

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So the experiment with a hybrid phrag compot continues. The first photo is from just under a year ago when the plants had been first repotted from the small compot seeltray into a seed tray with no holes in the bottom. Compost was leca at the bottom and mini rockwool cubes above. They sit under a couple of T5 lights which are on about 16 hours a day.
The idea was to allow root runs that are consistently close to the surface to allow plenty of air into the compost. Pretty much how it happens in nature. The moss grow abundantly across the surface after a few months and I was happy for this to happen, again mimicking nature. The idea came from Tom at Fox Valley and his way of growing superb besseae plants in seed trays and moss.
The second two photos are from today, before and after repotting. Although the initial growth was slow, this was more down to a lack of nutrients which was quickly remedied. Growth this year has been good, especially in the last few weeks when the summer heat has abated.
The plants were getting too cramped for the tray, some well over six inches across, but instead of giving each an individual pot, I decided to keep the experiment going and repot 16 of them into a large water tray with the same materials. I’ve added some of the old leca and moss to re establish system. The top dressing in the tray is large rockwool cubes and I’ve tried to keep the compost as open and airy as possible. Nothing has been pressed down and the moss has been placed on the top very lightly.

The root system under the moss was extensive and very vigorous. I want to grow these plants in the best way to flowering size. I’m not bothered about keeping them apart. They seem to grow very well as a group so why change?
it is also much easier and quicker to look after one large pot rather than sixteen smaller ones. The smaller seedlings on the left went back into the same seed tray.
I should see flowers next year. There may be the odd one next spring but more likely in the autumn or winter.
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Let’s see where we are in six months.
David
 
Great to see some experimenting going on. What is your fertiliser regime and how do you flush for salts if there are no drainage holes in the tray?
Phil
 
I’m using welsh tap water which is very pure and rainmix at half rate at every watering. I don’t flush ever. I do drain off excess water each week after giving a generous amount.
These are the seedlings today. Growth has been good since mid October as has the growth of the moss and we have a flower bud on the largest seedling. It may not develop, the plant is still small but I’m inclined to leave it to open as I’m curious as to whether the cross is correct.
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The leaf span on the budded plant is about ten inches.
David
 
Great job David, thanks for the update. They look very healthy and vigorous, which hybrid is this?

Also, have you been supplementing magnesium at all? A shot of Epsom salts (100ppm) once or twice a month for me has helped everything in my collection, won’t hurt the moss or phrags. But really helps to green up the leaves with my RO water.
 
Sorry Pete, its a sib cross of Lovely Lynne from Mike Tibbs at the exotic plant company. These are supposed to be progeny from two tetraploid parents both with large fat plum coloured flowers like a very high quality Fritz S.
The photos of them on his website showed amazing blooms with round overlapping petals so I’m keen to flower one even if it is a bit precocious.
Southern belle posted a photo of one of the parents, Largest Fritz Schomberg cross
Plus it’s a sib cross so there is a chance of some recombination and maybe we will see more than just plum coloured blooms. If there was a plant with more reddish besseae or orange dalessandroi colour I would be over the moon, especially if the flower shape was as good as the parents. They will also be fertile if they’re tetraploids.
I agree that some plants look a bit anaemic. I’ve been spraying with Epsom salts and have added a bit of powdered calcium to the mix. Plus I’ve upped the feed rate to the recommended rate for rain mix. However we’ve moved into temporary accommodation whilst we’re between houses so although they’re under T5 lights, it’s not very warm, maybe down to 17c at night and 20c during the day. I found that the seedlings greened up well last summer when the weather got warmer. Anyway they’re still growing ok and they're by far the fastest seedling phrags I’ve grown. 20 months from flask to bud isn’t bad. Part of that I’m sure is the tray method where all the roots are close to the surface of the compost where they get plenty of air.
 
Well done job growing, David. lt hardly matters, but I wonder about the tetraploid nature of the Fritz Schomburg and Peruflora’s Cirila Alca parents? I know there are a few recent FS plants but haven’t heard of tetraploid PCA. Similarly, verified kovachii are rare and I think tetraploid dalessandroi are rare or non-existent. But, someone may have recently chemically induced tetraploidy in FS and PCA and these were used to make new Lovely Lynne?
 
As far as I can tell Terry, it’s the Lovley Lynne sib parents that are tetraploid. These tetraploids were converted in the previous generation when the seed from FS x PCA cross were sown. Mike Tibbs has a Facebook page with photos of these two parents If you scroll down through his photos.
 
Now I understand. I think you saw Orchids Limited picture of their first (and I think only) tetraploid Fritz Schomburg, which was what we would hope for. Since the parents of your plants differ only by whether they have besseae or dalessandroi in them, it makes sense that they are very similar and both of the pictures you show look like a tetraploid Fritz Schomburg. There must be some great flowers in your batch unless the genetic dice are unfair. It will probably be hard to view the 3N Fritz Schomburg that we both have as so nice!
 
I’m hoping for something amazing Terry! The potential is huge but until they bloom, who knows?
The 4n Fritz at OL is stunning. Anything like that would be great. Also anything which deviates more in flower colour towards the original species parents. A sib cross in theory increase the chances of some segregation for all characteristics but doing this at the tetraploid level then reduces the chances of an outlier as you have to have two genes for the trait when in diploids you just need one. So who knows? Even an average of these parents would be good and there are 25 plants to grow up and bloom.
 
As far as I can tell Terry, it’s the Lovley Lynne sib parents that are tetraploid. These tetraploids were converted in the previous generation when the seed from FS x PCA cross were sown. Mike Tibbs has a Facebook page with photos of these two parents If you scroll down through his photos.
Do you trust his claim of tetraploidy? I also bought this 4N LL flask and they are now out in 3 inch pots - doing good but you are doing better. Will follow this thread with interest. Thanks.
 
Do you think you will be lucky and have one of your 3N Fritz Schomburg blooming about the same time to compare? Lovely Lynne is a Fritz Schomburg with 25% of the besseae being substituted by the closely related dalessandroi. I was thinking that Lovely Lynne would be (kovachii x Jersey), which has not been registered as a hybrid. Your big advantage is the possibility that all three species in this cross are polyploid, however they were created.
 
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Terry,
I won’t have any 3n Fritz plants in bloom. They’ve all finished for the season. I’m having some serious root problems with my mature phrags growing in the small cubes of rockwool. They don’t seem to like it. Root growth is poor. They’ve all been repotted into the large cubes and put in net pots.
 
Do you think you will be lucky and have one of your 3N Fritz Schomburg blooming about the same time to compare? Lovely Lynne is a Fritz Schomburg with 25% of the besseae being substituted by the closely related dalessandroi. I thought that Lovely Lynne is (kovachii x Jersey), which has not been registered as a hybrid. Your big advantage is the possibility that all three species in this cross are polyploid, however they were created.
Terry,
I won’t have any 3n Fritz plants in bloom. They’ve all finished for the season. I’m having some serious root problems with my mature phrags growing in the small cubes of rockwool. They don’t seem to like it. Root growth is poor. They’ve all been repotted into the large cubes and put in net pots.
David, my roots are growing well in a parfait of Hydroton (LECA) and medium rock wool cubes (Grodan). Layer of Hydroton on the bottom, a thin rock wool cubes layer about middle, another layer of Hydroton, and a final top layer of rock wool. Sort of came from Ray. The roots are mostly in Hydroton with the Grodan acting as an evaporation barrier so the roots have great air space. I am watering everything (Cattleya, Phrags, Miltoniopsis, Paphs) every 6 days. The larger Cattleyas with large root mass are usually not getting the middle layer of rock wool. I think air at the roots is the critical factor and then you adjust the fertigation schedule to match. For my winter period in the plant room (November and December) I reduced fertigation frequency and fertilizer concentration to match the much cooler conditions in the room.
 
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