Phragmipedium fischeri x Phragmipedium Twilight 'Rising Rocket' (4N)

[kentuckiense]

This was a gift from Matt Gore when I ordered a batch of fischeri from him a few years back. It's an Acker cross.

 

[Shiva]

Totally beautiful. That is quite a gift. By the way, it's called Phragmipedium Acker's Royalty.

 

[SlipperFan]

It certainly is royal in it's color!

 

[e-spice]

Love the color on that one!

e-spice

 

[NYEric]

Beautiful color combination of the besseae hybrid x fischeri! :clap:

 

[John M]

It's got a red pouch and pink petals....neat!

 

[JeanLux]

great colors!!! (Pics of fischeri? ) Jean

 

[toddybear]

What a great colour!

 

[etex]

Yummy!! Beautiful colors!! Thanks for sharing!
What does 4N mean??

 

[Shiva]

Yummy!! Beautiful colors!! Thanks for sharing!
What does 4N mean??

Larger number of chromosomes, meaning sturdier plant and larger flowers. Living things are made of two sets of chromosomes, one from the mother and one from the father, hence 2N. In plants, it's possible to double this number with a chemical called colchicine, thus 4N. This doubling of chromosomes can cause the offspring to be sterile, but that did not happen obviously with Twilight.

 

[cnycharles]

very interesting color spread

 

[John M]

Larger number of chromosomes, meaning sturdier plant and larger flowers. Living things are made of two sets of chromosomes, one from the mother and one from the father, hence 2N. In plants, it's possible to double this number with a chemical called colchicine, thus 4N. This doubling of chromosomes can cause the offspring to be sterile, but that did not happen obviously with Twilight.

I agree....except: It is my understanding that a 4N is not sterile. However, when you cross a 4N with a 2N, you get 3N and 3N's are sterile; but, usually quite vigorous growers and bloomers. You just can't use them for breeding. However, they can be cloned.

 

[NYEric]

Besides sturdier and larger, unfortunately colchicine treated 4N plants seem to take longer to develop.

 

[smartie2000]

I love the waves in the petals too

Besides sturdier and larger, unfortunately colchicine treated 4N plants seem to take longer to develop.

true. but once mature my 3N plant of another cross is in spike again, which makes that annual blooming. Huge plant!!!!! like double the leaf thickness and a bit longer too. but huge blooms.

 

[Hera]

I'll take one!

 

[KyushuCalanthe]

Dude, yer hurtin' my eyes, man...

 

[etex]

Thanks for the information!! Is that the same substance used for daylillies to make tetraploids?

 

[nikv]

Thanks for the information!! Is that the same substance used for daylillies to make tetraploids?

Yes, 4N is a scientific way of saying that a plant is a tetraploid. By the way, I've heard that some 3N plants are able to produce offspring, but that is a rare thing.

 

[John M]

Yes, 4N is a scientific way of saying that a plant is a tetraploid. By the way, I've heard that some 3N plants are able to produce offspring, but that is a rare thing.

That's correct. A 3N plant is called a triploid.


2N (diploid) = Fertile, normal plant with the normal number of chromosomes.

3N (triploid) = The result of crossing a 2N with a 4N. A normally infertile plant with 1 1/2 times the normal number of chromosomes. 3N's are normally good growers and bloomers. For this reason, some commercial nurseries deliberately create 3N's to boost plant vigour and ease of blooming. However, it is very rare that a plant is found which is able to breed. So, it's normally a dead end in that respect....no further generations to come.

4N (tetraploid) = Sometimes a spontaneous accident that happend naturally; or more often, the result of chemical manipulation of the tiny protocorms in flask. Often, 4N's are a little bit slower growing; but, they are normally more helfty plants with wider, thicker leaves and more robust flower stems carrying larger, rounder flowers with better substance and improved colour satuation. Many award winners are 4n. A very good example is the 4N Phrag. besseae 'Rob's Choice' AM/AOS owned and grown by Orchids Limited. Robert (Drorchid), posted a comparison photo of this plant next to a normal 2N besseae.

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/sh....php?t=12701&highlight=besseae+'Rob's+Choice'

I think we all want the 4N!

 

[John D.]

My two cents worth.
Folks who breed plants have lots of different goals, from improvement in specific traits to "let's see what happen if I cross these two".
Diploids (2N) crossed with diploids - offspring is diploid and the line will breed on. Most species are 2N except for some natural mutations or due to manmade conversions
Tetraploid (4N) crossed with 4N - offspring is 4n and will breed on

2n crossed with 4N - offspring is triploid (3N) can sometimes be used sucessfully as a parent (pollen is more sucessful than pod).
the downside is that the offspring are aneuploid not having full sets of chromosomes further breeding is a mess. Lots of cattleyas are in this group -reproduced by mericloning - hard to get viable seed due to the mixed parentage.

Looking at a plant you can't tell if it's 2N, 3N, or 4N.
There are some indicators that people use "thicker leaves, larger plants and flowers" etc but the only way to tell for sure is to count the chromosomes.
If you are breeding keep good records.
If you are trying to convert plants to tetraploid please do the rest of us a favor and don't release the treated seedlings without knowing exactly if they have converted (or at least full disclosure). The gene pools go from nice clean swimming holes to cess pools if we aren't carefull.