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Phrag. Emerald Fire -one step closer to a white Phrag-

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Drorchid

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Below is a picture of Phrag. Emerald Fire. This is from my line of breeding where in I am trying to create all white Phrag's. It is a cross between Phrag. calurum var grandiflora and Phrag. boissierieanum. It has allready been registered by Baker and Chantry back in 1995. I have to say it is one more step closer towards an all white Phrag. I have already crossed it to a clone of Phrag. Hanne Popow flavum which had a lot of white in it.



Robert
 
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gore42

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What exactly is "Phrag. calurum var grandiflora"?

Beautiful bloom!

- Matt
 
D

Drorchid

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Phrag. Calurum is longifolium x Sedenii. This is a picture of a regular Phrag. Calurum:



The Phrag. Calurum var. grandiflora clone that we have is an old clone that dates back to the late 1800's/ early 1900's and was made with a lighter colored Sedenii (having a almost white schlimii in it's background).

Here is a picture of Phrag. Calurum var. grandiflora:



You can see that by crossing Phrag. Calurum var grandiflora to boissierieanum the offspring has turned lighter in color, with more white in the pouch.

Robert
 

Kyle

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What do you think would have happened if you crossed it with the alba longifolium?

Kyle
 
D

Drorchid

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I agree that "technically" it should not have a varietal status, but back when this hybrid was created people used to do that, and because this is an old clone dating back to that era, and to differ from the regular Calurum we are keeping the old name.
 
D

Drorchid

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What do you think would have happened if you crossed it with the alba longifolium?

Kyle
I think we could get some all white ones out of that too. Unfortunately I don't have access to a alba longifolium. If you know anyone who does, I would love to have some pollen.

Robert
 

Kyle

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The last three times I have been to Ecuador, it has either just finished blooming or is in spike. I haven't seen the flowers since Decmeber 05.

Kyle
 
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gore42

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Phrag. Calurum is longifolium x Sedenii. This is a picture of a regular Phrag. Calurum:


The Phrag. Calurum var. grandiflora clone that we have is an old clone that dates back to the late 1800's/ early 1900's and was made with a lighter colored Sedenii (having a almost white schlimii in it's background).

Here is a picture of Phrag. Calurum var. grandiflora:


You can see that by crossing Phrag. Calurum var grandiflora to boissierieanum the offspring has turned lighter in color, with more white in the pouch.

Robert

Interesting, thanks. I've seen varieties listed for older crosses of Sedenii, but that was in the 19th Century... and I've never seen one listed for Calurum :)

- Matt
 

SlipperFan

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I think we could get some all white ones out of that too. Unfortunately I don't have access to a alba longifolium. If you know anyone who does, I would love to have some pollen.

Robert
That's beautiful, Robert. Do you think this cross will be consistent with this coloration? If so, are there any for sale???

I think Tom Kalina might have an alba longifolium.
 
D

Drorchid

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That's beautiful, Robert. Do you think this cross will be consistent with this coloration? If so, are there any for sale???

I think Tom Kalina might have an alba longifolium.
This has been the second seedling out of this cross that bloomed. The first one was similar in color, but not as well shaped. Unfortunately I only got about 5 seedlings out of this cross that germinated, and I will probably keep them all, for future breeding. But eventually they will be big enough, that we can sell divisions.

Robert
 
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lothianjavert

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Lovely! I really like the delicate coloration: the white with touches of green and pink. Would definitely be one I'd make space for. :)
 

Carol

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Robert,
Are Phrag Emerald Fire seedlings available for purchase?

Carol
 

Hien

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This has been the second seedling out of this cross that bloomed. The first one was similar in color, but not as well shaped. Unfortunately I only got about 5 seedlings out of this cross that germinated, and I will probably keep them all, for future breeding. But eventually they will be big enough, that we can sell divisions.

Robert
Only 5 seedlings?
This makes me wonder,
whether when we select for certain trait that we think desirable, we may also do away with the fertility, flowering capability etc... trait of the original species. What I mean is, a plant with a smaller flower or less desirable color may generate a lot of viable seeds (but we do not breed those plants)
I also wonder about the reputation of certain species to be hard to raise, slow to grow, difficult to flower.
In nature, any plant that produces the most viable seeds will get to increase in number.
 
D

Drorchid

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Only 5 seedlings?
This makes me wonder,
whether when we select for certain trait that we think desirable, we may also do away with the fertility, flowering capability etc... trait of the original species. What I mean is, a plant with a smaller flower or less desirable color may generate a lot of viable seeds (but we do not breed those plants)
I also wonder about the reputation of certain species to be hard to raise, slow to grow, difficult to flower.
In nature, any plant that produces the most viable seeds will get to increase in number.

With Phrags when you deal with complex crosses (involving multiple species) you get less and less germination over time. You usually get the most germination with primary crosses, or if you keep crossing species with the same number of chromosomes. In Phalaenoposis for example all species have the same number of chromosomes, thus you are able to make very complex crosses, and usually (depending on ploidy level) each hybrid is fertile.

In this case (crossing Phrag. Calurum with boissierieanum) you are dealing with different number of chromosomes in each parent. Also the Phrag. Calurum may have an uneven number of chromosomes, making it partially sterile, and thus only 5 seedlings were able to germinate.

The viablity of the seed (being able to germinate or not) has nothing to do with the vigor however. This plant is pretty vigourous (just as vigourous as it's boissierianum parent). Also luckily with Phrag seedlings, even though you sometimes get very low germination, you still can get multiple plants out of a cross, due to proliferation of the seedlings in the lab.

And it is true that some breeders overlook other qualities (like vigor, fragrance etc) when they are selecting for certain traits. But it is usually a trade off.

Robert
 
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gonewild

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Also luckily with Phrag seedlings, even though you sometime get very low germination, you still can get multiple plants out of a cross, due to proliferation of the seedlings in the lab.

Robert
When you get multiple plants "due to proliferation of seedlings in the lab" do you get unique seedlings or are they actually clones of each other with exact genetic makeup?
 

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