Phrag. 'brasiliense'

Discussion in 'Phragmipedium' started by littlefrog, May 22, 2020.

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  1. May 22, 2020 #1

    littlefrog

    littlefrog

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    I put that in quotes because a lot of people believe it is actually Phrag. Patti McHale (sargentianum x pearcii). Whatever it is, it is a good grower and bloomer for me. I don't know how close together those are in the wild, maybe a natural hybrid. It was formally described in 2003. This is a piece of one the two plants that were originally imported. Straight from Ron Ciesinski.

    I have a large division for sale... (relatively) cheap.
    IMG_20200516_144533889.jpg

    More info: http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/tanaka/orchid/org/shinshu/Phrag/ennew8.html
     
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  2. May 22, 2020 #2

    MaxC

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    Very good looking, love the red coloring.
     
  3. May 22, 2020 #3

    littlefrog

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    Well, if it is Patti McHale, that comes from sargentianum. Supposedly this has been selfed or sibbed and the offspring come out uniform (according to the article), so that lends credibility to the species idea. I really don't know. Some people have strong opinions about it.
     
  4. May 22, 2020 #4

    MaxC

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  5. May 22, 2020 #5

    tomkalina

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    Looks pretty similar to that Paph. Patti MacHale 'Brazos' clone that was awarded down in Texas a while back. It's probably one of those things we'll never know.
     

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  6. May 23, 2020 #6

    silence882

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    Does anyone happen to be good friends with someone who has access to a DNA sequencing machine?
     
  7. May 23, 2020 #7

    tomkalina

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    Great idea; but the highest tech gadget we own is an EC meter....
     
  8. May 23, 2020 #8

    silence882

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    I've got a multimeter if that helps!
     
  9. May 23, 2020 #9

    tomkalina

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    AC or DC?
     
  10. May 23, 2020 #10

    silence882

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    Both! I was an auto mechanic for a short time so I got a fancy one.
     
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  11. May 23, 2020 #11

    tomkalina

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    Sure would like to see that multi-meter run on DC!
     
  12. May 24, 2020 at 2:59 AM #12

    littlefrog

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    Sequencing is easy, I used to do the bioinformatics for our sequencing facility (Now I just teach, and not bioinformatics...). That is not the hard part. Hard part is finding reference material for the parents (unknown, if it is a hybrid Patti McHale is just a guess). And figuring out what genes to sequence. Somebody might be doing whole genome analysis of phrags - I hope so. It isn't that expensive anymore, but you still need to find somebody to pony up some money and do the analysis. Heck, you pay for the sequencing, I'll work the dust off my bioinformatics skills.

    15 years ago (or so, I have no sense of time and even less in the covid-19 era) one of the sequencing centers was offering a 'if you can process the data, we'll sequence your organism' kind of program. Helped write a proposal for amanita mushrooms (avenging angel) among other things, but left soon after that. I wonder if those ever came through.
     
  13. May 24, 2020 at 3:23 AM #13

    silence882

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    I was just talking this over with a plant geneticist friend of mine! There are ITS sequences in one of the sequence databases (EMBL) for pearcei and sargentianum/lindleyanum/kaieteurum. If one of the original brasiliense clones were to have the ITS region sequenced, it could reveal if it's a hybrid. My friend sent me a paper where this technique was used to distinguish natural hybrids in pondweeds (Potamogeton). The paper used rbcL sequences to confirm the hybrid origin, but unfortunately those aren't available (that I can find) for Phrags.

    I'm still looking into it, but you may get an email asking for a leaf tip or two :D
     
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  14. May 24, 2020 at 5:03 AM #14

    littlefrog

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    Sure, happy to send some samples.
     
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