Phal. amabilis?

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Got this as amabilis var. grandiflora but the petals might be a bit too full/overlapping for it to be real even though the callus and midlobe of the lip are somewhat accurate for amabilis subsp. amabilis? Thoughts?

I don't know the provenance of the plant unfortunately. But I guess it's possible to sequence this plant because there's a recent publication describing the vicariance and some deeper phylogenetic reconstruction of this species complex: http://bmcplantbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12870-015-0560-z

It's not a bad dataset really -- they used wild collected plants and have triplicates and some outgroups for control.

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My amabilis is blooming now and I need to take a closer
look with a magnifying lens, however, it appears to be
an amabilis and is blooming at the proper time. My plant
is an older plant with about 12 blooms open, but it appears that your flower is a good bit larger than mine.
 
Could be, but it sure looks exactly like mine from Big Leaf.
The only immediate difference I can see is that the blooms
are a bit more tilted than mine, but that could be due to
a number of conditions.

Paphio, I've had many amabilis over the years and have
never seen one keiki, even mounted ones.
 
Han, the lip shape looks 'correct' as an amabilis to me.

Abax, that is interesting. My friend's amabilis (ex-wild origin from Borneo) sometimes do throw keikis from the old spikes. Another friend's amabilis also produces very long spikes, especially the length from the base to the bottom flower.
 
Very nice, Han! And thank you for the link to the interesting paper. The typical photos of P. a. grandiflora has quite different flower shape. But I'm guessing most of the P. amabilis we can get seem to be pretty mocked around by breeders (e.g. in the US and Taiwan), so it may not maintain the unique regional variations. I wish we could get the region correct forms of this species more easily (LOC sometimes offers those).

You probably have seen this, but the following page has the comparison of lip/callus of regional forms (not mocked around).
http://www.cyberwildorchid.com/products/phalaenopsis/info/info_amabilis/index.html
The callus (and lip shape) of yours looks very similar to P. a. grandiflora. Your 2nd photo of the callus is very cool!
 
Thanks Angela and Li. I think the callus/lip along with waviness in the petals and dorsal sepal suggests that at least. The ex-wild 'Sabah' ones I used to grow also throws keikis often from the old spikes. Angela, I'm curious to see the flowers of yours that you got from Peter :rollhappy:

Naoki, yes, that's a great reference that is really useful. I think var. grandiflora is now lumped into subsp. amabilis and according to Christenson/Sweet, because there was much confusion with this clade originating from the Philippines as well as from Lindley.. I guess for now I'll keep this as just Phal. amabilis .
 
My amabilis is dropping blooms now. It's been in bloom for
a couple of months and the color has faded considerably. I
also have Irian Java and the blooms are quite different
from the amabilis as is the growth habit. I'm sure mine is amabilis, but now I'm not so sure about the one you
have. The differences are so subtle to my not very keen
eyesight. I suggest you send the photo to Mr. Lin at
Big Leaf to see what he thinks. Your bloom does resemble
Aphrodite. Anyway, it certainly is beautiful.
 
Angela, P. aphrodite has different lip shape (more triangular) and its callus is different. In the 2nd photo, han's plant has callus which looks like a jaguar face. P. aphrodite usually has another set of horns in-between the "ears".
 
Right, Naoki. After squinting at all those pictures, I'm more confused than I was before. I forgot about the horns.

Ah well, I'm old and can't see very well...dotage, you know.
 

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