Paphiopedilum venustum fma mesuresianum #2

Discussion in 'Paphiopedilum' started by Phaladdict, Jan 5, 2020.

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  1. Jan 5, 2020 #1

    Phaladdict

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    Opened since 4\5 days still no reflexed petals, but it do will reflex after a few more days will update then ..
     

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  2. Jan 5, 2020 #2

    Ozpaph

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    I think the dark spots mean its not 'Measuresianum'
     
  3. Jan 5, 2020 #3

    Phaladdict

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    I do agree, indeed I have to call in another way, perhaps almost mesuresianum....?
     
  4. Jan 6, 2020 #4

    Guldal

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    I think, Olaf Gruß - and also Braem for that matter, would give it a short shrift: in no way this can be claimed to be fma. measuresianum - fma. measuresianum is the albinistic colour form of the species, which by definition excludes the presence of any anthocyanin pigments in the plant. Anthocyanin is responsible for red or brown shades in the plant and flower.
    The dark spotting on your flower simply just makes it a pale form of venustum - that has nothing to do what so ever with fma. measuresianum.

    Kind regards, Jens
     
  5. Jan 6, 2020 #5

    Ozpaph

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    I like the 'almost'.
    What are the parents? One must be albanistic
     
  6. Jan 6, 2020 #6

    Phaladdict

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    Both are, but sometimes when you cross two alba form of venustum a good share of the siblings have these spots, hidden or recessive genes perhaps I don't know, other brother I keep no have....also I can't agree to call just venustum because a normal venustum for sure is not green nor is simply 'pale' as is green not pale, perhaps something like quasi or semi album we will see
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
  7. Jan 6, 2020 #7

    Don I

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    I like it better with the spots, what ever it is.
    Don
     
  8. Jan 8, 2020 #8

    Guldal

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    Although, being no botanist myself, I'm pretty certain, that it is with albinism, in a strit botanical sense, as it is with pregnancy - either you are pregnant or not...semipregnancy is a contradiction in terms!

    A solution to your conundrum might be designating the plant as P. venustum fma. semi-alboviride (Hort.) - thus signifying that the epithet, you use for the plant, is a horticultural, not a botanical one!

    Kind regards, Jens
     
  9. Jan 8, 2020 #9

    Phaladdict

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    Indeed I'm talking from horticultural perspective, we agree thath to be precise botanically plant is not a true albino,as have a few spot (if you look at most mesuresianum presented online and look closely you will see thath true ones are really not many), thath i never said the contrary, still is different from a normal and from a pale venustum and we, the horticulturist need a name for it.. :)
    Ps semialba on horticulture is used since a little while... I don't invented it myself :)
     
  10. Jan 9, 2020 #10

    DrLeslieEe

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    The definition of albino in green flowers is incorrect. Green flowers are virideflorium.

    The issue when we describe green/white/yellow albinistic flowers (in judging) that contain black or brown markings, is that we do not designate them as the 'alba' form, but instead the color is described without 'alba' designation. The presence of any black marks (even in the warts and hairs/cilia on petal margins) rules out that designation. For example, a lowii aureum that has a brown spotting on the petal base or a hirsutissinum album with black marks on petal base, will not be awarded as the alba forms, but rather awarded as a normal form with colors described (eventhough they are compared to the alba forms during the research process).

    However, in my opinion, if the flower is mostly green like yours, and have a few black markings, I would still consider it quasi-virideflorium, meaning mostly green. That is however not an accepted forma, so as Jens says, you put as horticultural variety (Hort.). This designation will separate this plant from the type colored plants.
     
  11. Jan 9, 2020 #11

    Phaladdict

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    Also i agree, it is viride/viridiflorum etc, in this case the albinistic green form was described as mesuresianum and as I had not a better horticultural name for the moment I leaved as mesuresianum even if I know have to change the tag on this one, I just can't agree to call just venustum from an horticulturist point of view as is clearly not normal venustum and the only color traces are in these darker spots, so all in all I agree somewhath like semi albinistic, quasi viridiflorum, etc. seems fair in this case to differentiate it from normal coloration
     
  12. Jan 12, 2020 #12

    Phaladdict

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    Update 'almost mesuresianum' with petals in definitive position
    I like it even better than some true mesuresianum...
     

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  13. Jan 13, 2020 #13

    Ozpaph

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    the spots make it quite different (in a good way)
     
  14. Jan 13, 2020 #14

    GuRu

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    A very beautiful flower though it isn't fma. measuresianum as Jens remarked correctly.
     
  15. Jan 13, 2020 #15

    Phaladdict

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    Indeed is not, but is not normal or pale venustum either, so for now is 'almost mesuresianum'
     
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  16. Jan 13, 2020 #16

    GuRu

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    That's a wise decision.
     
  17. Jan 14, 2020 #17

    Guldal

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    In the heat of the discussion, I now note, that I totally forgot to leave a comment on the flower...and in this - as in so many other instances, I wholeheartedly concur with GuRu! :)
     
  18. Jan 14, 2020 #18

    Phaladdict

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    There is not a discussion as i agree from the beginning is not a true mesuresianum, im just trying to call it in a way there is no confusion as really is a semi albinistic form :), even if still im not sure how to call it...
    Thank you by the way!!
     
  19. Jan 14, 2020 #19

    GuRu

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    Jens, you make me feel embarrassed.
     
  20. Jan 15, 2020 #20

    likespaphs

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    this is a true var measuresianum
    if you look at nearly all var measuresianum, you will see those black dots. they may be reduced in size or just in a small area of them in the middle of the petals
    this is something that has bugged me for years!
     

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